Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

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west didsblue said:
What other analogy would work where a government is trying to scapegoat a minority, wants to lock up or deport people without due process, wants to ignore international law and treaties, and refers to destitute people fleeing persecution as an invasion?
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The language is important,(look away bob), Ribbentrop the foreign minister spoke of flattening the Sudetenland and flattening everything in their path.
The gestapo chief when referring to Kristallnacht, said the German people were to extract revenge on the jews.
He ordered the police to leave them unhindered in their revenge only to minimize plundering.
These are just a couple of examples of the language used during the time of Lineker's reference.
To compare that era with this is nonsense.
If Lineker couldn't think of a better analogy then he shouldn't have made one.
As is obvious by this thread his comments have only inflamed an already overheated discussion.
There is considerable opposition to the plans on all sides and calm heads are needed not bollocks comparisons with one of the worst regimes in history.
 
Irrespective of the issue,; the nuances of who can come here or can't ; the present government is predominantly far right. The individuals who are far right, control the ideology. One of those is Braverman.
 
rabby said:
The language is important,(look away bob), Ribbentrop the foreign minister spoke of flattening the Sudetenland and flattening everything in their path.
The gestapo chief when referring to Kristallnacht, said the German people were to extract revenge on the jews.
He ordered the police to leave them unhindered in their revenge only to minimize plundering.
These are just a couple of examples of the language used during the time of Lineker's reference.
To compare that era with this is nonsense.
If Lineker couldn't think of a better analogy then he shouldn't have made one.
As is obvious by this thread his comments have only inflamed an already overheated discussion.
There is considerable opposition to the plans on all sides and calm heads are needed not bollocks comparisons with one of the worst regimes in history.
Click to expand...

Okay. But go further back before the Germans started rounding up Jews, even before they forced them to wear patches, created the SS, and moved them to the ghettos. There was a lot of build up before the final solution.

What type of rhetoric was used then by the Germans and why does Lineker and several human rights groups and Holocaust survivors feel that Suella’s talk of “swarms” and “invasions” are similar.
 
Vic said:
Odd. The only thing I'd heard from Jewish sources in the media was that Lineker shouldn't make comparison with 1930s Germany.
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Which media did you hear that from? It was doubtlessly filtered to reflect what they wanted when all they needed to do was go to the source
 
rabby said:
The language is important,(look away bob), Ribbentrop the foreign minister spoke of flattening the Sudetenland and flattening everything in their path.
The gestapo chief when referring to Kristallnacht, said the German people were to extract revenge on the jews.
He ordered the police to leave them unhindered in their revenge only to minimize plundering.
These are just a couple of examples of the language used during the time of Lineker's reference.
To compare that era with this is nonsense.
If Lineker couldn't think of a better analogy then he shouldn't have made one.
As is obvious by this thread his comments have only inflamed an already overheated discussion.
There is considerable opposition to the plans on all sides and calm heads are needed not bollocks comparisons with one of the worst regimes in history.
Click to expand...
So what analogy would you suggest?
 
BayernMan said:
Okay. But go further back before the Germans started rounding up Jews, even before they forced them to wear patches, created the SS, and moved them to the ghettos. There was a lot of build up before the final solution.

What type of rhetoric was used then by the Germans and why does Lineker and several human rights groups and Holocaust survivors feel that Suella’s talk of “swarms” and “invasions” are similar.
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I'm well aware that the there was a build up to the more extreme actions of the Nazis (let's call them what they were,don't insult all Germans).
I'll ask you the question I asked a few others earlier without response,as you've drawn a parallel about the build up to the atrocities do you believe we are on a similar path.
If the answer is yes then I feel you have a poor grasp of this countries history and likely future.
If it's no then why draw the comparison in the first place.
 
rabby said:
I'm well aware that the there was a build up to the more extreme actions of the Nazis (let's call them what they were,don't insult all Germans).
I'll ask you the question I asked a few others earlier without response,as you've drawn a parallel about the build up to the atrocities do you believe we are on a similar path.
If the answer is yes then I feel you have a poor grasp of this countries history and likely future.
If it's no then why draw the comparison in the first place.
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It’s a yes for me.

Did Lineker inflame an already controversial subject by referring to asylum seekers as “swarms”.? Has Lineker been in charge of immigration this past decade? Is Lineker legislation being criticized by human rights groups and the UNHCR? Funny you mention history, wasn’t the National Front a UK political parties in the 70s that also supported this rhetoric? Britain is hardly a nation anymore immune to this rhetoric than other European countries.

However, you have clearly highlighted that the Nazis gradually went towards the final solution so you acknowledged that but the connection Lineker makes has occupied your attention? Why is that and not the people who are chiefly responsible ie. the governments actions and rhetoric which are the genesis of all this controversy.
 
rabby said:
The language is important,(look away bob), Ribbentrop the foreign minister spoke of flattening the Sudetenland and flattening everything in their path.
The gestapo chief when referring to Kristallnacht, said the German people were to extract revenge on the jews.
He ordered the police to leave them unhindered in their revenge only to minimize plundering.
These are just a couple of examples of the language used during the time of Lineker's reference.
To compare that era with this is nonsense.
If Lineker couldn't think of a better analogy then he shouldn't have made one.
As is obvious by this thread his comments have only inflamed an already overheated discussion.
There is considerable opposition to the plans on all sides and calm heads are needed not bollocks comparisons with one of the worst regimes in history.
Click to expand...
  • Avoid abstract ideas - appeal to the emotions.
  • Constantly repeat just a few ideas. Use stereotyped phrases.
  • Give only one side of the argument.
  • Continuously criticize your opponents.
  • Pick out one special "enemy" for special vilification.
Sound familiar?
 
BayernMan said:
It’s a yes for me.

Did Lineker inflame an already controversial subject by referring to asylum seekers as “swarms”.? Has Lineker been in charge of immigration this past decade? Is Lineker legislation being criticized by human rights groups and the UNHCR? Funny you mention history, wasn’t the National Front a UK political parties in the 70s that also supported this rhetoric? Britain is hardly a nation anymore immune to this rhetoric than other European countries.

However, you have clearly highlighted that the Nazis gradually went towards the final solution so you acknowledged that but the connection Lineker makes has occupied your attention? Why is that and not the people who are chiefly responsible ie. the governments actions and rhetoric which are the genesis of all this controversy.
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Thankfully you said yes,as believing we are on the same path as the Nazis proves to me there is no point taking this further.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
  • Avoid abstract ideas - appeal to the emotions.
  • Constantly repeat just a few ideas. Use stereotyped phrases.
  • Give only one side of the argument.
  • Continuously criticize your opponents.
  • Pick out one special "enemy" for special vilification.
Sound familiar?
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Yes,I read your posts regularly.
 
Sunak meeting with Macron tomorrow and the briefings have started.

The French will apparently reject calls for a return policy with the UK as the UK rejected their call for more legal and safe routes to reduce channel crossings. France will step up security on French soil with the UK prepared to increase payments to France.

In short, the crossings will continue, the press will get hysterical and the Govt will get even more absurd with their stunts and rhetoric.
 
rabby said:
What did the Nazis ever do to be compared so unfavourably with the Tories.
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Nothing, it is a comparison of todays Tory party with fascist ideology.
rabby said:
Joking aside Lineker's comments are as unfortunate as they are stupid.
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Even stupid people have opinions as you are proving so beautifully.
rabby said:
Germanys foreign minister in the late 30s was Von Ribbentrop,first to be executed at the Nuremberg trials,a brief look through his tenure will show how ridiculous the comparison is.
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Von Ribbentrop was found guilt of enabling the holocaust, he was the first to be hanged for that crime against humanity.
rabby said:
What makes Lineker's contribution worse is that it will only exacerbate the problems and entrench already radical opinions on all sides of the debate and won't help a single refugee.
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Disagreeing with Government policy is not a crime, nor will that disagreement make things worse unless it entrenches the Governments position.
rabby said:
If he had offered up some constructive criticism and possibly some solutions to the issue he may have contributed positively.
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He tweeted an opinion that has resulted in the Tory party losing the plot. All power to his elbow.
rabby said:
A lesson Lineker and anyone else discussing day to day issues should learn is referencing the Nazis to aid your point loses you all credibility.
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It depends on the point being made. Is the UK government enacting policies reminiscent of Fascism, yes it is. The only people who lose credibility are actual Fascists.
 
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