Keir Starmer

[west didsblue]

Always puzzles me that "centrists" froth at the mouth when Tories lie but give this **** a free pass.

Because Tory lies have a direct impact on our lives. Starmer changing his position on things has no effect at all.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Always puzzles me that "centrists" froth at the mouth when Tories lie but give this **** a free pass.

His 'relationship with the truth' is shaky to say the least. Sadly Johnson, Cummings, Hancock etc have lowered the bar so far in terms of honesty and integrity in public office that starmer seems broadly acceptable.

 

[urban genie]

Always puzzles me why those on the Labour left that hate Starmer also didn’t like the last Labour government when it was probably the best government this country has had since Wilson in the sixties. Most people in this country are fairly centrist in their views and now that the Tories have morphed into UKIP with a selection of nutters and idiots in government and on the back benches, there’s really no alternative to Labour. The only way Labour can lose it is by throwing away their centrist credentials that Starmer has fought so hard to put in place.

There is a big difference to the 1997 labour party leadership than now, only idiots compare starmer to blair.

blair for his faults was a better leader and politician for one and also stuck to what he believed in unlike starmer who will change ideals for likes, also Blair employed different parts of the party to achieve his goals, that is why you had Brown, Straw, Prescott, Blunkett, Beckett etc, a mix that ranged from left, center and blue labour.

Starmer has a buerocratic almost stalinist need to purge anything that is evenly slightly off his message, and a need for complete control and obedience, something that is the antithesis of what labour has always stood for, unity, tollerance or ideas, collectiveness.

Also he will lie and change his views at a drop without an hinest word from his lips

Plus the overton window has shifted over the last 40 years rightwards, and what was blairs centerism now is left of starmers, which is more closely atuned to Cameron and Osborunea soft conservatism.

I have abandoned labour natioanlly now as it does not represent my values even those that are centre left, at least under Blair it still, at core was a soft left party with some neo-liberal lurches, now it is nothing I recognise as Labour

 

[Postman Pep]

It feels like the Labour Party will be dammed whatever they do. I’ve no idea why Starmer has chosen this hill to fight on, he’s not coming across as a strategic thinker here, just someone who doesn’t want any lefties in the Labour Party. Moreover he is creating an environment where you either agree with him or you’re gone - a dictatorship in all but name. No checks and balances to his folly (which he will have). I guess you need to be in the rose network to be one of his sort.

In terms of choosing to fight this factional war and in Mandelson's words, 'seal the tomb on the left' it goes beyond Starmer. It's just that in many ways he was the perfect man for the job. Although he has a long career in public life he has only been an MP for 8 years and an easy sell as a 'unity' candidate. His earlier, less high profile, career goes some way to explaining his 'top down' managerial style. This is worth a watch if you've an hour spare.



Interesting segment on his Brexit machinations within it.

Be interesting to see how the grass roots view the purge of the left, getting these folk out knocking on doors and campaigning might be a bit harder than he thinks right now. Sure you’ll get some who would vote for a pig if it had a red rosette on it, I guess he is hoping for enough lethargy that only those type of Labour voters bother plus enough “dissatisfied” tories who are happy to vote for Sir Tory Starmer.

I suppose the only way to truly gauge that will be election time but they are where they are in the polls because of the Tory implosion and nothing else. Nobody appears to be paying much attention to what Labour are all about which is understandable to a degree given the anger at the Tories but they are also getting a free pass from the media ... case in point today. No mention of EHRC or AS in the justification yet no pushback. Obviously the reason it's missing is it wouldn't withstand a legal challenge because it's built on sand .... just like their poll lead.

As you said earlier we are in a one party nation right now. A strong opposition anchors the government of the day nearer the centre than their ideologies - this Labour Party on the right can surely only send the Tory party further to the right, sure it might make them unelectable but at what cost.

Again examplified just today with the Tory crackdown announcements. Just like on 'stop the boats' Labour aren't attacking them on their callousness but on their efficiency. Starmer made a similar moral panic laden pitch just last week but nobody was listening apparently.

 

[Postman Pep]

Centrists are just that, centrists.

Most are just to the left of centre economically and just to the right socially and are of one opinion in that they want rid of the Tories but want a government that represents them and their political beliefs.

Blair have them that and it’s no coincidence his dominance politically.

Economically to the left? I recommend a resit of 6th form politics:)

 

[urban genie]

Can I point out Sixth fromers don't sit and discuss politics, they smoke weed, shoplift, play cards and try and get a shag, from the ones I see daily

 

[Postman Pep]

Unfortunately and perhaps unfairly Iraq probably remains the lasting memory of that govt. As far as the country having a feelgood factor and general prosperity goes it's hard to think of a better time than 1999-2002 in the last fifty years.

Tbh it was reading about PFI contracts whilst laid up in hospital that did it for me, I'd seen enough by 2001.
Some of them run until 2055. Might be worth adding them to the Blair legacy chart which will probably still in circulation at that point. Talk about moving on :)
Anyway while we are reminiscing here's a throwback to a youthful Keith .... haven't those lies aged him.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

He isn’t daft. Country will vote in a Blair clone and nothing else so that is what he will turn himself and the party into.

It’s electable and it gets rid of the Tories.

Left wing fantasy is best left for this forum and sixth form common rooms.

Fine and dandy by me.

 

[Postman Pep]

 

[Indaparkside]

There is a big difference to the 1997 labour party leadership than now, only idiots compare starmer to blair.

blair for his faults was a better leader and politician for one and also stuck to what he believed in unlike starmer who will change ideals for likes, also Blair employed different parts of the party to achieve his goals, that is why you had Brown, Straw, Prescott, Blunkett, Beckett etc, a mix that ranged from left, center and blue labour.

Starmer has a buerocratic almost stalinist need to purge anything that is evenly slightly off his message, and a need for complete control and obedience, something that is the antithesis of what labour has always stood for, unity, tollerance or ideas, collectiveness.

Also he will lie and change his views at a drop without an hinest word from his lips

Plus the overton window has shifted over the last 40 years rightwards, and what was blairs centerism now is left of starmers, which is more closely atuned to Cameron and Osborunea soft conservatism.

I have abandoned labour natioanlly now as it does not represent my values even those that are centre left, at least under Blair it still, at core was a soft left party with some neo-liberal lurches, now it is nothing I recognise as Labour

What a load of shite Blair should have been charged with war crimes in Iraq, weapons of mass destruction my arse 1,000’s of innocent women, children and men killed on a lie

 

[urban genie]

What a load of shite Blair should have been charged with war crimes in Iraq, weapons of mass destruction my arse 1,000’s of innocent women, children and men killed on a lie

the iraq war is a seperate conversation to the is starmer disliked because he is a blair clone I was replying to.

The comparison of the two is a nonsense.

whether blair was a **** overall is a different topic covered many times and which is evident

 

[BobKowalski]

Alternatively, it highlights the shift in Labour and the differences between Starmer and Corbyn, especially as Corbyn will not be allowed to fight under the Labour banner. I mean, what are the Tories going to say? Corbyn is standing in this election against Labour? This proves…what?

Personally, I doubt Corbyn standing or not standing is going to make the slightest difference in the election. Corbyn is old news. Johnson standing for the Tories is a much bigger drag (assuming that happens).

 

[Gabriel]

 

[bluenova]

Always puzzles me why those on the Labour left that hate Starmer also didn’t like the last Labour government when it was probably the best government this country has had since Wilson in the sixties. Most people in this country are fairly centrist in their views and now that the Tories have morphed into UKIP with a selection of nutters and idiots in government and on the back benches, there’s really no alternative to Labour. The only way Labour can lose it is by throwing away their centrist credentials that Starmer has fought so hard to put in place.

I'd have thought that it's a pretty consistent position, and that many from the same tradition would probably have disliked Wilson and Atlee as well.

 

[Rascal]

It feels like the Labour Party will be dammed whatever they do. I’ve no idea why Starmer has chosen this hill to fight on, he’s not coming across as a strategic thinker here, just someone who doesn’t want any lefties in the Labour Party. Moreover he is creating an environment where you either agree with him or you’re gone - a dictatorship in all but name. No checks and balances to his folly (which he will have). I guess you need to be in the rose network to be one of his sort.

Be interesting to see how the grass roots view the purge of the left, getting these folk out knocking on doors and campaigning might be a bit harder than he thinks right now. Sure you’ll get some who would vote for a pig if it had a red rosette on it, I guess he is hoping for enough lethargy that only those type of Labour voters bother plus enough “dissatisfied” tories who are happy to vote for Sir Tory Starmer.

As you said earlier we are in a one party nation right now. A strong opposition anchors the government of the day nearer the centre than their ideologies - this Labour Party on the right can surely only send the Tory party further to the right, sure it might make them unelectable but at what cost.

I wish I had the desire and inclination to answer your superb post. I do not though. I am drained mate, my passion for the Labour party is no more.

I just want Starmer out. Then start again or if need be start a new party of the left for the left. A Socialist party not full of liberal lefties droning on about capitalism being a good thing.

 

[Postman Pep]

Alternatively, it highlights the shift in Labour and the differences between Starmer and Corbyn, especially as Corbyn will not be allowed to fight under the Labour banner. I mean, what are the Tories going to say? Corbyn is standing in this election against Labour? This proves…what?

Personally, I doubt Corbyn standing or not standing is going to make the slightest difference in the election. Corbyn is old news. Johnson standing for the Tories is a much bigger drag (assuming that happens).

Relish the prospect of an election battle were the highlighted words. If true it suggests to me a high profile campaign.
Sure it won't decide the election. That will come down to their performance when they are subjected to more scrutiny. Surely at point they will have to put some meat on the bones of these vibes based missions. Maybe this distraction could be useful after all.
As for the Tories they'll throw any old shit and there is plenty of it about.

 

[BobKowalski]

It feels like the Labour Party will be dammed whatever they do. I’ve no idea why Starmer has chosen this hill to fight on, he’s not coming across as a strategic thinker here, just someone who doesn’t want any lefties in the Labour Party. Moreover he is creating an environment where you either agree with him or you’re gone - a dictatorship in all but name. No checks and balances to his folly (which he will have). I guess you need to be in the rose network to be one of his sort.

Be interesting to see how the grass roots view the purge of the left, getting these folk out knocking on doors and campaigning might be a bit harder than he thinks right now. Sure you’ll get some who would vote for a pig if it had a red rosette on it, I guess he is hoping for enough lethargy that only those type of Labour voters bother plus enough “dissatisfied” tories who are happy to vote for Sir Tory Starmer.

As you said earlier we are in a one party nation right now. A strong opposition anchors the government of the day nearer the centre than their ideologies - this Labour Party on the right can surely only send the Tory party further to the right, sure it might make them unelectable but at what cost.

I’m not entirely convinced that a political party with a circa 20% polling lead is ‘dammed whatever they do.’

Maybe it’s just me…

 

[BobKowalski]

Relish the prospect of an election battle were the highlighted words. If true it suggests to me a high profile campaign.
Sure it won't decide the election. That will come down to their performance when they are subjected to more scrutiny. Surely at point they will have to put some meat on the bones of these vibes based missions. Maybe this distraction could be useful after all.
As for the Tories they'll throw any old shit and there is plenty of it about.

I imagine ‘Starmer is being mean to Corbyn‘ will play pretty well, but more as a sideshow. Meanwhile, Sunak will have the ghost of Truss and Johnson haunting him. People who became PM and in the case of Johnson, Sunak supported until he knifed him. Bit like Starmer is doing with Corbyn.

Politics is a rough old business. Perhaps Corbyn should be the bigger man and bow out gracefully for the good of the country and to rid us of the Tories. You think he will, or will it be all about him and how badly he has been treated? And if he does, how different in character is he to Johnson who makes everything about him and how badly he is being treated?

 

[hilts]

Starmers idea of Labour being a broad church

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Wow, Starmer getting some serious attacks tonight which, to me, only shows that he’s getting it right.

Corbyn is the latest murmur and for his supporters, which I was one, can’t be happy with what Starmer has done. However, from Starmer’s POV, he will see how Corbyn can harm the campaign as the Tories are using it as an attack dog against him.

An old saying of ‘Cutting off the limb to save the body’ seems very apt here.