PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Leech]

There's a few clubs that seem to have moved across to our side now aren't there? I think Burnley have. Pretty sure Sheffield United won't want to sour their relationship with us either ahead of their return to the top flight. Maybe one or two others are with us now also?

What makes you think Burnley have?

 

[ricoh71]

Like most old school blues on here, I spent my 20s and 30s winning arguments in pubs against the rags, who were winning trebles whilst we were playing Wigan and Gillingham to save our lives. Whether it was ‘you don’t come from Manchester’, Ryan Giggs not having parents or taking the piss out of the boat loads and plane loads of tourists, we scrapped for any bit of leverage we could find.

I think we need to deal with the fact that no matter what the outcome, enough mud has been thrown. Which was after all the main purpose. But compared with the above, winning the argument will be child’s

 

[Dinas]

What makes you think Burnley have?

Think I'm right in saying that Sheffield United declined to sign the infamous letter although they were given ample opportunity to.

 

[ricoh71]

Exactly. Remember one rag tw*t to the delight of his sad mates waving a pretend passport in my face saying ‘you’ll never need one of these’. Just for the temerity of having my city shirt on. I was probably about 15 or 16 at the time.

Boots on the other foot now. C*unt of a fan base.

Never Forget.

 

[SilverFox2]

A lot of the media coverage is so transparently bitter and resentful now that I largely ignore or ridicule it. It’s certainly not going to hamper my enjoyment of what City are doing. Don’t really care about public perception any more either. Fans of Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc will hate us regardless. If it’s not these allegations then they’ll find another reason to try and besmirch our achievements. Fuck them all.

They were quite rightly afraid of his investment power.

Nothing has changed and even Spain recognizes his football success.

I'm intrigued to see what happens next.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

A lot of the media coverage is so transparently bitter and resentful now that I largely ignore or ridicule it. It’s certainly not going to hamper my enjoyment of what City are doing. Don’t really care about public perception any more either. Fans of Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc will hate us regardless. If it’s not these allegations then they’ll find another reason to try and besmirch our achievements. Fuck them all.

That’s it, fuck em, fuck em all. Once you get that attitude then nothing they say riles.

Was at an amateur game on Wednesday afternoon and talking to a couple of very nice people but when asked who I supported the first jibe of a billion spent was made. To which, I just said, with a huge smile and a bit of laughter ‘We need to spend a billion more if it gets that reaction’.

The next jibe came immediately after, semi-angrily with the ‘100 and odd charges’ to which, with a puzzled face, I quizzically asked if they honestly thought we were going to be found guilty. With a look of confusion, they just shook their head and said ‘No, not a chance of that’.

Always be confident, never go on the defensive and always go on the attack. Oh, and just smile, that winds them up like fuck.

 

[Coatigan]

Eh!

It's a cheap in-joke. Nothing exciting.

 

[ste.sully]

2. The Limitations Act 1980

I understand that, but discrepancies between Rules and Laws undermines the PL's case and our lawyers will start with that. The Limitations Act 1980 destroys a lot of the PL's evidence if it's applicable.

Para 174 of the CAS Arbitration Award found that the LImitation Period ended with the Referral Decision on 15th May 2019, so the Limitation Period for the charges brought in the Referral Decision started to run on 15th May 2014 (5 year limitation) Breaches committed as from 15th May 2014 therefore fell within the Limitation Period and may be prosecuted, while prosecution of breaches committed prior to such date is barred by application of Article 37 CFCB Procedural Rules.

Using the same logic, the PL would only be able to investigate any alleged breaches going back to 15th May 2013 (6 year limitation) or when they discovered the alleged fraud, concealment or mistake.

Hacked Emails 14th April 2010, 6th September 2012, 7th December 2012 would still be inadmissible and time barred but emails 29th August 2013 and 11th December 2013 and “undated” email and “total cash” sheet could be prosecuted if proven to be breaches. That's half the PL's evidence time barred and dismissed.

Another thought, if the PL's FFP didn't start until 2014, then all the hacked emails could be inadmissible.

The limitation period only applies if it was a contract.

Although Manchester City are a shareholder of Premier League Ltd as the other 19 clubs are, there will be a separate contract for each season. The length of the limitation period depends if the contract to compete was signed under hand (a simple contract) or under seal (with a witness and executed as a deed).

Due to the amounts of money that are dealt with I find it hard to believe that a contract would not be under seal with a witness and executed as a deed so the limitation period that applies would be 12 years rather than 6 years (it would only be 6 years if it was a "simple contract" under hand without witness and not executed as a deed). To say the Premier League does not have a time bar or limitation period in its rules is legally incorrect and just proves - if any were actually needed - no one in the media really knows what they are talking about.

UEFA have a 5 year rule as as this is applicable to many European countries. It isn't an arbitrary random number, it's a balance between various European jurisdictions. If UEFA had a 12 year limitation period then this would work under UK law, but under Dutch law it would not as the limitation period is 5 years there. This would create legal difficulties and undermine the whole system.

 

[Leech]

Think I'm right in saying that Sheffield United declined to sign the infamous letter although they were given ample opportunity to.

They're also owned by a Saudi prince, so you'd think they'd be on the same side as Newcastle and consequently us.

 

[adr2.8i]

Exactly. Remember one rag tw*t to the delight of his sad mates waving a pretend passport in my face saying ‘you’ll never need one of these’. Just for the temerity of having my city shirt on. I was probably about 15 or 16 at the time.

Boots on the other foot now. C*unt of a fan base.

Never Forget.

We won't forget, well our fans of a certain age certainly won't!! It's only fair we give it to them back now!

 

[mattcity5]

What makes you think Burnley have?

I remember reading something along those lines but couldn't tell you where.

 

[Len Rum]

The limitation period only applies if it was a contract.

Although Manchester City are a shareholder of Premier League Ltd as the other 19 clubs are, there will be a separate contract for each season. The length of the limitation period depends if the contract to compete was signed under hand (a simple contract) or under seal (with a witness and executed as a deed).

Due to the amounts of money that are dealt with I find it hard to believe that a contract would not be under seal with a witness and executed as a deed so the limitation period that applies would be 12 years rather than 6 years (it would only be 6 years if it was a "simple contract" under hand without witness and not executed as a deed). To say the Premier League does not have a time bar or limitation period in its rules is legally incorrect and just proves - if any were actually needed - no one in the media really knows what they are talking about.

UEFA have a 5 year rule as as this is applicable to many European countries. It isn't an arbitrary random number, it's a balance between various European jurisdictions. If UEFA had a 12 year limitation period then this would work under UK law, but under Dutch law it would not as the limitation period is 5 years there. This would create legal difficulties and undermine the whole system.

Au contraire I would be very surprised if the contracts were executed as a deed.

 

[cheekybids]

Absolutely. The forum is a better place for their views.

But I do wish they would try to explain to non-legals in a less legal way, sometimes. 99% of the people on here don't have any legal training, so sometimes pick up the wrong end of the legal argument stick purely from the way it is explained. A better way to explain the right to appeal would be to say there IS a right of appeal in certain, unlikely circumstances, rather than saying there is no right of appeal except in certain, unlikely circumstances. People are looking to the experts on here for comfort as well as legal explanation. A little comfort would go a long way on a particularly stressful issue, imho.

My point is more psychological than legal maybe.

Maybe I have no point.

Maybe there is no point at all, anywhere.

Philosophical as well as psychological then :)

From what I’ve noticed a lawyer would read your post completely differently to any of us lay people.

It is however an absolute privilege to get schooled by a lawyer for free :)

 

[Leech]

I remember reading something along those lines but couldn't tell you where.

Feels unlikely, their owners are broke American profit-seekers who purchased their club through debt.

Burnley were one of the biggest opponents to the Newcastle takeover and proponents of punishing Everton for supposed FFP breaches last season; it would be some U-turn for them to suddenly be supporting us in our FFP battle.

 

[cheekybids]

"What Premier League fans think..."

So they 'think' they understand. The brightest and the best on here don't even understand what we've been charged with

“Yeah well what they done is cheating in it. Everyone knows that, they give players brown envelopes and they got no fans. The sheik buys all the tickets himself & that’s why it’s called the emptihad. The biggest cheating is probably all the money comes from Saudi, he uses shell oil companies to disguise what he done. They only got off last time cos of a technicality which was they were found guilty but it was too old wannit but it didn’t matter anyway cuz they picked 2 judges which they bribed but the honest one saw through it. Still the fact that one judge said guilty proves they done it. That’s 115 innit, might have missed a few.

 

[Zabbasbeard]

A lot of the media coverage is so transparently bitter and resentful now that I largely ignore or ridicule it. It’s certainly not going to hamper my enjoyment of what City are doing. Don’t really care about public perception any more either. Fans of Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc will hate us regardless. If it’s not these allegations then they’ll find another reason to try and besmirch our achievements. Fuck them all.

Exactly this. I only read or listen to the press or coverage if it has objectivity. I'm not interested in the biased ones. As for mouthy people parotting hateful stuff I just give them short shrift.

 

[I'm Blue]

We should bring the Sheikh in for this. Let them call him a liar

I like this idea, though I’d have the British government lined up behind him.
Then the second they call him a cheat he can pull out the cheque for billions that the government think they’re gonna get and burn it in front of them.

 

[horlock_was_super]

That’s it, fuck em, fuck em all. Once you get that attitude then nothing they say riles.

Was at an amateur game on Wednesday afternoon and talking to a couple of very nice people but when asked who I supported the first jibe of a billion spent was made. To which, I just said, with a huge smile and a bit of laughter ‘We need to spend a billion more if it gets that reaction’.

The next jibe came immediately after, semi-angrily with the ‘100 and odd charges’ to which, with a puzzled face, I quizzically asked if they honestly thought we were going to be found guilty. With a look of confusion, they just shook their head and said ‘No, not a chance of that’.

Always be confident, never go on the defensive and always go on the attack. Oh, and just smile, that winds them up like fuck.

Back when they were successful (I know it all seems to be in black and white in our collective memories) my stock answer was ‘no, I didn’t watch it, don’t really get football on the telly’ That always got the Bitter Blue rise because always that was how they had watched the game.

These days there are still idiots who haven’t moved on and still think nytid are the bestest ever. Bizarrely City’s last 12 years don’t seemed to have happened.

One fuckwit in work today ( early 30’s ) tells me:

”Can’t wait to batter City next week, got loads of mates coming round to watch it. What you doing, are they showing it at the emptyhad?”

” I will be at Wembley.”

Nothing.

The dickheads in their late 30’s now grew up with rag entitlement.

I am 58 and, this is what pisses me off more than anything else, rags my age grew up watching the same shit that I did, yet the minute they won the Premier League they became Uber arrogant overnight. People that I regarded as mates turned into twats, relatives became pariahs, work colleagues suddenly turned into enemies the list went on.

This arrogance led to the television fan. Suddenly putting your hand in your pocket became stupid. Something only Citeh fans do.

Us FOC’s kept on going, keeping the faith, being there when we were shit and laughing at the whole absurdity of it all.

I love seeing our young uns who know nothing but success keeping the typical City culture alive.

Stay true Blues to the values that those fallow years emboldened in us, never forget that fucking banner and remember as Cheesey tells us:

It’s great to be a Blue.

 

[goat boy]

I like this idea, though I’d have the British government lined up behind him.
Then the second they call him a cheat he can pull out the cheque for billions that the government think they’re gonna get and burn it in front of them.

I find myself wondering what kind of low key semi-diplomatic influence would be available if AD sought to look at it. Every time a brick is laid, or a job vacancy is posted in Openshaw or Beswick, it's paid for by a kind of outside investment UK PLC is rather badly in need of. I'd imagine our government do not want to politicise this discussion, but what if there's a view of this being taken on a simple economic level? Does someone in Whitehall take note of this situation when deciding on suggested policy for future regulation over the football industry? Are the Premier league weighing this facet? Should they be?

 

[I'm Blue]

I find myself wondering what kind of low key semi-diplomatic influence would be available if AD sought to look at it. Every time a brick is laid, or a job vacancy is posted in Openshaw or Beswick, it's paid for by a kind of outside investment UK PLC is rather badly in need of. I'd imagine our government do not want to politicise this discussion, but what if there's a view of this being taken on a simple economic level? Does someone in Whitehall take note of this situation when deciding on suggested policy for future regulation over the football industry? Are the Premier league weighing this facet? Should they be?

I’d imagine for now our government is happy to stay out of it, but they will be watching very closely what’s unfolding and I’d imagine if the need arises this will get political very fast.