I expect the vote to Rejoin would be towards 60%, although it would be completely otiose as there is no way the current members of the EU would countenance such a move, so much have we done to isolate ourselves from our closest neighbours.If you take away his vote as well as all the leave voters that have died and have a second referendum remain would win easily - and that's before we even start to consider those who have since realised they were wrong / changed their minds.
Yes, @blueinsa has, much to his credit. Takes a lot for someone to do that. Much respect.
Fair comment but in my families case they paid minimum wage + and assisted with accommodation subsidies as rental costs were barmy. The core issue remains that my family can’t get UK nationals signed up to do the work. Almost doesn’t matter how much you pay (within reason). Folk who actually want to work would rather stack shelves or flip burgers or whatever.I suppose the only way we can replace cheap polish labour is to look outside the EU to some other impoverished country so we can leverage the pay differential between our countries in the same way. I suppose some parts of Africa and Asia might have places where we can get people from, pay them a pittance and it will be rock star wages back home, but no where near as convenient as Eastern Europe.
As I said, we need to find another source of good labour that is prepared to work for low pay like the poles. I'm guessing out of the ashes of the Ukrainian war we will be able to tap into a willing supply of fairly desperate folk who are well disposed to the UK because of our support. Not a forever solution though, so we need to find other impoverished people long termFair comment but in my families case they paid minimum wage + and assisted with accommodation subsidies as rental costs were barmy. The core issue remains that my family can’t get UK nationals signed up to do the work. Almost doesn’t matter how much you pay (within reason). Folk who actually want to work would rather stack shelves or flip burgers or whatever.
I think the British fishing industry was sound in their unanimous outlook on leaving the EU (was it 95%?) and I find the snide laughing at them by those upset by the vote to Leave winning to be cheap.
They’d been fucked over since the 80s by the EU. It’s not their fault they’ve also been betrayed by successive British govts in handling atrocious outcomes of leaving the EU since the vote to Leave came through.
Yet they’re spoken about as being Brexidiots, when they aren’t.
How about Somalians? That’s a proper shithole. Only downside is they seem to like their machetesAs I said, we need to find another source of good labour that is prepared to work for low pay like the poles. I'm guessing out of the ashes of the Ukrainian war we will be able to tap into a willing supply of fairly desperate folk who are well disposed to the UK because of our support. Not a forever solution though, so we need to find other impoverished people long term
Yes, possibly a little high maintenance.How about Somalians? That’s a proper shithole. Only downside is they seem to like their machetes
Can’t substantively disagree with anything you’ve said there mate, and as I hope you recall, I always said we should leave once the vote, however flawed and misconceived it was, had occurred. It would have torn our country apart if we hadn’t, even more than is the case now.Terrible decision to leave and had we voted to remain I would have been over my leave vote in a matter of minutes and I’ve stated I would vote to rejoin in a heartbeat given the chance, although that now seems increasingly unlikely.
What I won’t ever apologise for though and it was a real dig your heels in moment for me was the attempts to ignore what 17 million said and to just remain despite the result. At that point we had to leave, regardless and I’m glad we did if for no other reason than those who as I saw it, who wished to subvert a democratic vote and voices of millions got told to fucking do one.
To this day, that’s the real beef and arguments still for the majority. Not leaving, not the vote, it’s the fall out and the arguments that followed when it became all out war between those who said we have to respect the vote and those who didn’t want to.
Agree we had to leave but what I don’t agree with is how the government redefined Brexit from simply leaving the EU to doing our best to cut as many ties as possible and making it much more painful than it needed to be. The fanatics on the right would have done their collective nuts if common sense had prevailed and we negotiated a Norway or Switzerland type deal but in reality nothing would ever have been enough for them as we see now with Farage’s latest bullshit.Can’t substantively disagree with anything you’ve said there mate, and as I hope you recall, I always said we should leave once the vote, however flawed and misconceived it was, had occurred. It would have torn our country apart if we hadn’t, even more than is the case now.
We absolutely had to respect the outcome and deal with the consequences. I think the alternative would definitely have been worse.
Agree with all that too.Agree we had to leave but what I don’t agree with is how the government redefined Brexit from simply leaving the EU to doing our best to cut as many ties as possible and making it much more painful than it needed to be. The fanatics on the right would have done their collective nuts if common sense had prevailed and we negotiated a Norway or Switzerland type deal but in reality nothing would ever have been enough for them as we see now with Farage’s latest bullshit.
I was talking how some on here see it not what actually happened. I know plenty who disagreed with the result but haven't got anywhere near the obsessive behaviour as some on here.Saying it was forced upon us isn’t fair or accurate. It was more akin to a fraud than a robbery where the victims were cynically duped by something they saw written in the side of a bus.
Agree we had to leave but what I don’t agree with is how the government redefined Brexit from simply leaving the EU to doing our best to cut as many ties as possible and making it much more painful than it needed to be. The fanatics on the right would have done their collective nuts if common sense had prevailed and we negotiated a Norway or Switzerland type deal but in reality nothing would ever have been enough for them as we see now with Farage’s latest bullshit.
I was talking how some on here see it not what actually happened. I know plenty who disagreed with the result but haven't got anywhere near the obsessive behaviour as some on here.
It not only carries on in this thread day in day out year after year but also infects other parts of the forum.
The way I saw it, it was an attempt to talk down a man that had clearly stated he wanted to leap off Beachy Head.What I won’t ever apologise for though and it was a real dig your heels in moment for me was the attempts to ignore what 17 million said and to just remain despite the result. At that point we had to leave, regardless and I’m glad we did if for no other reason than those who as I saw it, who wished to subvert a democratic vote and voices of millions got told to fucking do one.
The way I saw it, it was an attempt to talk down a man that had clearly stated he wanted to leap off Beachy Head.
I know you voted in good faith and have been nothing but honest since. I do however differ in my view that this had to happen. Democracy should not be infested with misinformation and blatant lies and those that are best at it the ‘winner’. Brexit was nothing but a right wing coup orchestrated by a small number who would benefit from it in terms of wealth and or power. I will argue to the day I die that the manner the referendum was carried out and implemented was wrong and nothing that subsequently happened was democracy in action.
The same methods continue in our politics every day. Let’s hope we have learned a lesson. If we have, at least done good will have come from it.
I take your point about the wider forum but I’m struggling to see why anyone who voted to leave is remotely wound up about this thread.I was talking how some on here see it not what actually happened. I know plenty who disagreed with the result but haven't got anywhere near the obsessive behaviour as some on here.
It not only carries on in this thread day in day out year after year but also infects other parts of the forum.
No other subject that anyone has felt bitter about goes on and on like this. The US shootings thread maybe but that’s because they continue to happen. The Brexit vote was seven years ago and we’re not going backI take your point about the wider forum but I’m struggling to see why anyone who voted to leave is remotely wound up about this thread.
There is no meaningful debate from alternative sides about the merits (or otherwise) of Brexit. It is simply a vehicle for those who thought it was a mistake at the time to vent, shake their heads and to feel some sort of sense of vindication, however bittersweet that may be.
I fully accept it is without question an echo chamber, possibly the biggest on the forum. The thread title should provide a clue. That is the sole remaining function of this thread - no debate about the merits of Brexit, merely a medium for posters of a certain disposition (like myself) to rant a bit - and given that, there is no point in anyone who isn’t part of that cohort engaging with it, or getting worked up about the content. It’s like going on RAWK and getting upset about what they say about City. Simply no point.
Doesn’t mean I‘m trying to say who can and can’t post on here, just that there seems no point engaging with it unless you’re part of that cohort and there’s nothing stopping anyone starting an alternative thread that hasn’t morphed and calcified like this one.
Maybe some of us just want a space where we can collectively moan and let off some steam about Brexit. It’s hardly a capital offence and stops us boring people in the real world about the subject.
I'm not remotely wound up by the thread mate. I very rarely read it or post in it. Just wander in from time to time. Read the last couple of pages and either comment or don't.I take your point about the wider forum but I’m struggling to see why anyone who voted to leave is remotely wound up about this thread.
There is no meaningful debate from alternative sides about the merits (or otherwise) of Brexit. It is simply a vehicle for those who thought it was a mistake at the time to vent, shake their heads and to feel some sort of sense of vindication, however bittersweet that may be.
I fully accept it is without question an echo chamber, possibly the biggest on the forum. The thread title should provide a clue. That is the sole remaining function of this thread - no debate about the merits of Brexit, merely a medium for posters of a certain disposition (like myself) to rant a bit - and given that, there is no point in anyone who isn’t part of that cohort engaging with it, or getting worked up about the content. It’s like going on RAWK and getting upset about what they say about City. Simply no point.
Doesn’t mean I‘m trying to say who can and can’t post on here, just that there seems no point engaging with it unless you’re part of that cohort and there’s nothing stopping anyone starting an alternative thread that hasn’t morphed and calcified like this one.
Maybe some of us just want a space where we can collectively moan and let off some steam about Brexit. It’s hardly a capital offence and stops us boring people in the real world about the subject.
I take your point about the wider forum but I’m struggling to see why anyone who voted to leave is remotely wound up about this thread.
There is no meaningful debate from alternative sides about the merits (or otherwise) of Brexit. It is simply a vehicle for those who thought it was a mistake at the time to vent, shake their heads and to feel some sort of sense of vindication, however bittersweet that may be.
I fully accept it is without question an echo chamber, possibly the biggest on the forum. The thread title should provide a clue. That is the sole remaining function of this thread - no debate about the merits of Brexit, merely a medium for posters of a certain disposition (like myself) to rant a bit - and given that, there is no point in anyone who isn’t part of that cohort engaging with it, or getting worked up about the content. It’s like going on RAWK and getting upset about what they say about City. Simply no point.
Doesn’t mean I‘m trying to say who can and can’t post on here, just that there seems no point engaging with it unless you’re part of that cohort and there’s nothing stopping anyone starting an alternative thread that hasn’t morphed and calcified like this one.
Maybe some of us just want a space where we can collectively moan and let off some steam about Brexit. It’s hardly a capital offence and stops us boring people in the real world about the subject.
All totally fair points. But we reserve our right to keep moaning!No other subject that anyone has felt bitter about goes on and on like this. The US shootings thread maybe but that’s because they continue to happen. The Brexit vote was seven years ago and we’re not going back