Keir Starmer

[TinFoilHat]

The age of the lad isn't and shouldn't be an issue

It is whether it is good that for 2 decades nearly all politicians are careerist ones straight out of uni and a internship or job with big business or in the parliamentary bubble itself not many are being brpught through outside certain sectors.

Mercer was talking absolute bollocks that a 25 year old cannot be life experienced to work the job, it is whether they be it 20 or 60 years of afe actually know and understand the state of Britain and it's citizens and most in westminster, be it boomer Gen X, millenial or Gen Z seem to be clueless

and Starmer has been awful when it comes to local candidates who have worked and lived in the community being put up, blocking their right to stand in selections.

we seem to be on an endless cycle of producing the same standard of MPs with little to show between them and no empathy for the common man, woman or child.

Tony Blair Foundation churning lots of these young and new MP candidates.

I'm all for youth shaking up the establishment. I did the same in my union and see the next one's coming through doing likewise.

However listening to the blairite clones selected I can't see many rebels in the ranks.

I think the majority agree we need a total political overhaul to reflect the needs of the electorate. The only way that could happen would be mass organisation, regardless of political persuasion to get a party to adopt it and put it in place. However we're all so far in our boxes no one wants to hand out an olive branch to an political opponent to get it done.

 

[urban genie]

Starmers flip flopping on green issues show he is about short term gains for him not the long term future of the nation.

All about votes and power

 

[Phil1]

Seems a shame from an outside view that Labour seem to be shooting themselves in the foot when they are on the cusp of finally getting into power.
Is Starmer really as bad as this thread makes out?

 

[hilts]

Seems a shame from an outside view that Labour seem to be shooting themselves in the foot when they are on the cusp of finally getting into power.
Is Starmer really as bad as this thread makes out?

Imagine if someone set fire to your house. Sunak would be the arsonist, Starmer would be the one stood there with a pail of water, just the one.

He might even use it once he has told you that his father was a toolmaker and can you cough up some dosh as big water companies need growth.

 

[halfmist]

You wrote

"Families can have as many kids as they want, just don’t expect the tax payer to fund them."

My post about my family showed that the tax payer funding of children works and my family has paid back in tax what it received probably a hundred fold if not more. Tax payer funding of children is actually investment in the future, it helps produce better educated more rounded units of production, that are economically successful. Success should not be the preserve of the owners of capital, aspiration should be for everyone and if child welfare helps then it should be given to every child not just to the first two born. If such a cap was around when my nan and grandad were having their families my family would have been much poorer than they were and less likely to succeed. My family would have remained in the poverty trap, they would have been less educated and less productive meaning my cousins life chances would also have diminished

Government policy is and always has been, based on a one size fits all.
If each and every policy was based on an examination of how it affects individual families and why it shouldn’t apply to them nothing would get changed.
It appears that Labour will follow the Tories and leave the rule in place.
Of course I could trawl back through Google and see what Labour had to say when it was introduced, I am fairly sure they would have vehemently opposed it,but when the reality of power begins to kick in they realised they cannot afford to re introduce it.

 

[halfmist]

Seems a shame from an outside view that Labour seem to be shooting themselves in the foot when they are on the cusp of finally getting into power.
Is Starmer really as bad as this thread makes out?

I don’t think so.
He just happens to be a realist and those on the left find this just too difficult to cope with.
If and when, he becomes PM he will end up with more grief from within his party than from the Opposition.

 

[bluenova]

Government policy is and always has been, based on a one size fits all.
If each and every policy was based on an examination of how it affects individual families and why it shouldn’t apply to them nothing would get changed.
It appears that Labour will follow the Tories and leave the rule in place.
Of course I could trawl back through Google and see what Labour had to say when it was introduced, I am fairly sure they would have vehemently opposed it,but when the reality of power begins to kick in they realised they cannot afford to re introduce it.

I expect they'll abolish it at some point - reducing child poverty will be a key aim, and once they have a bit more control of the finances, it'll be a 'relatively' cheap way to do this.

Right now, you won't get them to agree to anything that could appear on a Tory election leaflet as extra spending - particularly on welfare benefits.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Seems a shame from an outside view that Labour seem to be shooting themselves in the foot when they are on the cusp of finally getting into power.
Is Starmer really as bad as this thread makes out?

Under his leadership Labour have just overturned the biggest ever majority at a by-election on record and are on track to cruise to a general election victory. While there isn't quite the euphoria of 1997 it's not far off.

Considering the car crash experiment of his predecessor I think he's doing an amazing job. Rachel Reeves needs to be given a lot of credit too. We need some actual sensible adults in the two great offices of state, given the wreck our economy is at the moment.

The caveat being my personal politics are towards the centre of centre-left and I haven't really felt any party have represented my views in recent years. I'll be proud to vote Labour in the next election under Starmer.

He's going to make an excellent PM.

Yes there's a lot of whinging from the nutters on the far left that he's not trying to do batshit stupid stuff like nationalise the internet (an actual Corbyn policy) but those people can go and join George Galloway in Russia or vote for the communist party.

 

[halfmist]

I expect they'll abolish it at some point - reducing child poverty will be a key aim, and once they have a bit more control of the finances, it'll be a 'relatively' cheap way to do this.

Right now, you won't get them to agree to anything that could appear on a Tory election leaflet as extra spending - particularly on welfare benefits.

With more and more demands on the State and expectations running high control of the finances and keeping the markets calm is going to be a massive juggling act

 

[halfmist]

Under his leadership Labour have just overturned the biggest ever majority at a by-election on record are on track to cruise to a general election victory. While there isn't quite the euphoria of 1997 it's not far off.

Considering the car crash experiment of his predecessor I think he's doing an amazing job. Rachel Reeves needs to be given a lot of credit too. We need some actual sensible adults in the two great offices of state, given the wreck our economy is at the moment.

The caveat being my personal politics are towards the centre of centre-left and I haven't really felt any party have represented my views in recent years. I'll be proud to vote Labour in the next election under Starmer.

He's going to make an excellent PM.

Yes there's a lot of whinging from the nutters on the far left that he's not trying to do batshit stupid stuff like nationalise the internet (an actual Corbyn policy) but those people can go and join George Galloway in Russia or vote for the communist party.

A very sensible post

 

[BrianW]

The problem with scrapping the 'two child' limit is that if you do so it will appear in the Daily Mail as: 'Taxpayers (i.e. you) being forced to subsidise families who have never worked and choose to have 16 kids.' Accompanied by pictures of one such family holidaying in Benidorm and coming back to their 8-bedroom council house with its 70" flat-screen TV.

Because that is the state of politics in this country. Fucking dire.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The problem with scrapping the 'two child' limit is that if you do so it will appear in the Daily Mail as: 'Taxpayers (i.e. you) being forced to subsidise families who have never worked and choose to have 16 kids.' Accompanied by pictures of one such family holidaying in Benidorm and coming back to their 8-bedroom council house with its 70" flat-screen TV.

Because that is the state of politics in this country. Fucking dire.

Alastair Campbell used the analogy of his route to victory is like trying to carry a Ming vase over an ice rink.

It's in his hands but he just needs to be smooth and steady.

Campbell said (and I agree) that it's likely that he just doesn't want to rock the boat too much with the centrist swing voters but once they're in power they'll probably change this policy.

What so many people on the left don't understand is that you need to win power before you can do anything. Winning absolutely must be the one and only objective in a campaign, otherwise you're just a load of angry protestors with the power to do fuck all.

Starmer knows exactly what he is doing - same thing with his frequent criticisms of the environmental protesters. It plays well with the swing voters, he can't be seen to be just another 'woke leftie'.

Tony Blair also knew this and it won him three general elections. A fact that again, a lot on the left conveniently choose to ignore.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Seems a shame from an outside view that Labour seem to be shooting themselves in the foot when they are on the cusp of finally getting into power.
Is Starmer really as bad as this thread makes out?

I don't think, at a fundamental level, Starmer is a bad person and I think as a former human rights lawyer and head of the CPS he is going to be competent (which is already an improvement on the Tories regardless of policy). I will probably end up voting for him because I think he will probably improve things in some small way (though he'd be hard-pressed to do worse than the current government).

I think Starmer's challenge is that he has had to maintain a holding position without any prospect of an election for four whole years, while the whole time the Tories look like they're in death throes. This is my appraisal of the situation, but it's largely just my opinion.

As a result of the Tory collapse, he has shifted his position from being a candidate of 'hope' to being a candidate of 'stability' which has been extremely jarring for many of his former advocates - he's foregone a lot of his past promises and failed to offer one little carrot to the left of the party to make them think he's still their man. He is doing the Tony Blair act of stealing the centre ground, but at the moment he doesn't look like he is stealing it for any actual purpose. I would be much more enthusiastic about him as a party leader if he went along the lines of "We're going to have to get in power to enact policy, so let's do what it takes, but when we get there we'll enact PR" or something like that.

Now, I am one of those that thinks that, just as New Labour did a lot of good things once they got into government including minimum wage and reduced NHS waiting times, he is probably trying to do something similar. My worry is that this kind of policy 'evolution' is going to take a long time to implement, and some (like me) want to see just 5-10% of 'revolution' because otherwise I fear the Tories could just be back in 5 years dismantling shit again.

I like Starmer's pragmatism, I don't care much for his flip-flopping, I would love for him just to put one thing on the table for me to get excited about.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

I think Starmer's challenge is that he has had to maintain a holding position without any prospect of an election for four whole years, while the whole time the Tories look like they're in death throes. This is my appraisal of the situation, but it's largely just my opinion.

Sitting back and giving an inept rival enough rope is a perfectly legit campaign tactic, as frustrating as it can look on the outside. It's exactly what the Biden campaign did in 2020 and it was a very smart move.

I'm sure the campaign team behind Starmer took note of this.

 

[mexico1970]

Sitting back and giving an inept rival enough rope is a perfectly legit campaign tactic, as frustrating as it can look on the outside. It's exactly what the Biden campaign did in 2020 and it was a very smart move.

I'm sure the campaign team behind Starmer took note of this.

You could put a cardboard cut out of a badly drawn blancmange in as opposition to the tories and it would easily win.

Anyone with a pulse and it should be in the bag, but this is Labour we are talking about, they should have gone with the blancmange.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

You could put a cardboard cut out of a badly drawn blancmange in as opposition to the tories and it would easily win.

Anyone with a pulse and it should be in the bag, but this is Labour we are talking about, they should have gone with the blancmange.

Or, a lettuce even?

 

[mexico1970]

Or, a lettuce even?

Maybe a potato with a quirky come hither face?

 

[bluenova]

With more and more demands on the State and expectations running high control of the finances and keeping the markets calm is going to be a massive juggling act

It's certainly not likely to be a great time to be coming into power, but the Tories have gone so far down the rabbit hole that the markets and most big financial institutions will probably welcome a Labour govt.

Tory economic policy has been batshit crazy for years now, without any real identifiable approach. Arguably, austerity was the last time they had a plan, and that was one that most economists decided was misguided fairly quickly.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Maybe a potato with a quirky come hither face?

Now I've just got an image of a bald Boris Johnson in my head.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Sitting back and giving an inept rival enough rope is a perfectly legit campaign tactic, as frustrating as it can look on the outside. It's exactly what the Biden campaign did in 2020 and it was a very smart move.

I'm sure the campaign team behind Starmer took note of this.

I'm in total agreement, as per my post though - the risk of that is that the opposition can unhang themselves for the next election. You need to make some big moves while in government to keep them buried. Biden has done some good things in the US. I hope Starmer has big plans.