VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

Would you want VAR scrapped?

  • Total voters
    293
  • Poll closed .
Why not use the the latest VAR version that was used in the WC, is this used in the CL as well ?

Surely the main question should be why did pl vote to carry on using the old system.

Is the old system easier to 'fix' games because the VAR ref decides when to draw the lines. VAR ref decides what frame to use, decides when the ball is played.

Isnt the new system more computer based so less input from the VAR refs ?
 
blueinsa said:
Agree.

Its an impossibility and to have a system designed to disallow rather than award goals by the merest of margins when we know the technology being used is unable to accurately capture it is just plain wrong and ridiculous.
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I have been saying this from the start ! They guess which still frame to use. I have seen some still frames were the ball is like a long oval shape to rule a goal out. I have seen other still frames when the ball is 100% ball shape ( round ) to rule a goal out.
 
give it to gordon said:
Why not use the the latest VAR version that was used in the WC, is this used in the CL as well ?

Surely the main question should be why did pl vote to carry on using the old system.

Is the old system easier to 'fix' games because the VAR ref decides when to draw the lines. VAR ref decides what frame to use, decides when the ball is played.

Isnt the new system more computer based so less input from the VAR refs ?
Click to expand...

That doesn't change the view that the absolute certainty of 1mm offsides isn't either possible or in the spirit of the game. Although , granted, it is better than what we have now if more accuracy and less human involvement is what you want.
 
halfcenturyup said:
That doesn't change the view that the absolute certainty of 1mm offsides isn't either possible or in the spirit of the game. Although , granted, it is better than what we have now if more accuracy and less human involvement is what you want.
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Not sure if the extra human involvement negates the positives. But our version does at least have a tolerance level built in, when the two lines overlap. So it’s probably more a few centimetres than a mm they’re judging.

Whereas the UEFA system claims to always be able to tell as a matter of fact. So even less than a mm really for them.
 
Stephen230 said:
Just think you’d be creating even more controversy with a vague ‘clearly wrong’ benchmark.

No one is going to stop the TV people from drawing lines and I’d give it two weeks before one man’s ‘clearly wrong’ turns out to be less than another man’s play on.
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I would give it less than two weeks, but so what?

There is controversy everywhere on a football field. There will be controversy on offsides even if you can measure offsides to 1mm: active play, deliberate action, interfering, playing the ball - it goes on and on. Complaining about referees' decisions is a part of the game. I was doing it in the 60s. It will always happen. What is the point of applying an accuracy of measurement that the people refereeing the game, or the people in the ground, can't be expected to see? How is that improving the game? It's purely mastubatory. self-pleasure. Look at how good we are - we can disallow a wonderful goal from someone who has beaten the offside trap as well as he humanly could, looking across the line, timing his run as best he can, and we can disallow it because he was running and his toe was 1mm in front of a defender. How does that benefit the game?

It's (presumed) impossible-to-see-in real-time accuracy for the sake of it. It does nothing at all for the game.

Or put it this way. before VAR, how many offsides were there that you would say, the linesman must be bent it was so offside, compared to, say, it looked offside to me but it's so close, or it looked onside but it's difficult and fair enough?

I was in favour of VAR, I still am for some things. But for 1mm offsides? Forget it.
 
give it to gordon said:
Why not use the the latest VAR version that was used in the WC, is this used in the CL as well ?

Surely the main question should be why did pl vote to carry on using the old system.

Is the old system easier to 'fix' games because the VAR ref decides when to draw the lines. VAR ref decides what frame to use, decides when the ball is played.

Isnt the new system more computer based so less input from the VAR refs ?
Click to expand...

Apparently the reason for not going for the UEFA auto offside was it be out of date in a few years! More like a company have told them they have a new ofside technology and there is money in it for you if you don't go with the uefa one!

It's always about money
 
Stephen230 said:
Not sure if the extra human involvement negates the positives. But our version does at least have a tolerance level built in, when the two lines overlap. So it’s probably more a few centimetres than a mm they’re judging.

Whereas the UEFA system claims to always be able to tell as a matter of fact. So even less than a mm really for them.
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:)

And that brings me to questions I have on the accuracy of the SAOT. But that is for another day, everyone will be pleased to know.
 
I've suggested having a standard part of the body as the tester for offside. A sensor fixed to the middle of the sternum on the shirt, or the middle of the back of the collar, or in the toe of both boots, for example.
Appreciate this may be influenced by how players are positioned moving towards, or away from, the goal. However this would be a perfectly accurate system of black and white fact.
 
blueinsa said:
What the fuck has yet another mealy mouthed apology got to do with my views on VAR?
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''This is the 6th occasion this season the PGMOL have apologised for penalties The Potters should have received only 10 games into the season
The refereeing standard in the EFL continues to decline with debatable decisions being made on a weekly basis, maybe it’s time for VAR? ''

You never read this bit.

You assumed the apology was for bad decisions with VAR.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Which is why this ridiculous quest for absolute truth in offside decisions is nonsense. Any tolerance like half a yard, daylight or whatever will lead to the same 1mm issues. Either accept stupid 1mm offside decisions and shut up or just stop all this freeze frame, drawing lines nonsense and leave the on-field decisions alone unless they are clearly wrong from real time video footage, as is supposed to happen with every other offence monitored by VAR.

Personally, I have a fundamental problem with applying the concept of absolute certainty to offside decisions.
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Correctomondo!

The bigger the magnification the more problems they create.

It's nearly all about judgements, they can't science the shit out of this.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
''This is the 6th occasion this season the PGMOL have apologised for penalties The Potters should have received only 10 games into the season
The refereeing standard in the EFL continues to decline with debatable decisions being made on a weekly basis, maybe it’s time for VAR? ''

You never read this bit.

You assumed the apology was for bad decisions with VAR.
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Well that proves it all then.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
It just proves some posters don't understand that clubs and leagues that don't have VAR are demanding VAR because officiating is even worse without it.
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All the PL clubs wanted VAR. I think there are less clubs who would want VAR now.

They will never stop human error. Putting a technology layer into it hasn't stopped it, what it has done is stifle the game whilst they look deeper and deeper into decision making.

So if we're going to always have human error let's not ruin the game at the same time. Roll it back to just the automated offsides, goal line technology etc. Never 5 6, 7 humans making a judgement. That always leads to confusion.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
They will never stop human error. Putting a technology layer into it hasn't stopped it, what it has done is stifle the game whilst they look deeper and deeper into decision making.

So if we're going to always have human error let's not ruin the game at the same time. Roll it back to just the automated offsides, goal line technology etc. Never 5 6, 7 humans making a judgement. That always leads to confusion.
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Human error will always occur but you're purposely avoiding 'reducing' and making out that VAR hasn't increased the amount of correct verdicts than before. Nothing with rest of your points.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
All the PL clubs wanted VAR. I think there are less clubs who would want VAR now.

They will never stop human error. Putting a technology layer into it hasn't stopped it, what it has done is stifle the game whilst they look deeper and deeper into decision making.

So if we're going to always have human error let's not ruin the game at the same time. Roll it back to just the automated offsides, goal line technology etc. Never 5 6, 7 humans making a judgement. That always leads to confusion.
Click to expand...
There's an interesting article, just published in The Athletic. Obviously behind a paywall, but they asked all the PL managers what they thought of VAR, and the Liverpool decision.

All were pretty relaxed about the Liverpool error, and had an attitude that these things happen, but it's better than it was. A couple were asked about the rumour that Darren England won't do any more Liverpool matches, and they seemed unimpressed by that.

One, anonymously, questioned the decision to drop them when they make mistakes. He reckoned that, although the Onana one was a mistake early in the season, taking the ref off for a week put extra pressure on them, particularly as many were quite new to VAR.

theathletic.com

'It was a mistake. Accept it' - Asking Premier League managers about VAR controversy

“I trust in VAR. I trust in the car but not the driver.” “It was a mistake. Accept it.” “I’d be surprised if they have gone that way. It’s a significant error but it’s a human being that’s made that error.” This week’s hot topic in the Premier League has, of course, been the VAR error from last...
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
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