Middle East Conflict

JASR said:
I don’t think they allowed it to happen.

The wall was Netanyahu’s expensive project, it succeeded in giving the illusion of being strong and impregnable against an ad hoc rag tag mob of militants, but was going to be ineffective against an organised and intelligent enemy.
That’s where the Israeli intelligence and government have failed - their belief that Hamas was just a rag tag terrorist group incapable of sophisticated planning.

The article, in some nuanced ways, shows the lack of respect or just sheer incomprehension of threats - the bit about snipers simply targeting the ammunition storage of remote controlled automatic guns on the fence line to disable them stood out.
To have such a sophisticated weapon with such a vulnerable part, that is then exploited with just a sniper rifle…

Iirc 1973 war was very similar , Israel was caught off guard with complete surprise and was still lying on its laurels after the comprehensive victories of the 1967 war. It completely under estimated the ability of its wounded neighbours to re-arm, upgrade military doctrine and re-coordinate their actions.

The superiority of Israeli forces, tactics and training only came to bear after the initial losses.

So, I think Israel underestimated Hamas ability to strike , believing a sophisticated wall would stop human incursions, as the Iron Dome was generally stopping rocket attacks.

Warfare is always about exploiting the weaknesses of others, complacency and feeling superior being quite high up on those weaknesses , especially in a David and Goliath or Troy situation.
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Correct - same as an attack like 9/11, it wasn't a conspiracy, it was just an extremely well.planned attack years in the making.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
Every drop of civilian blood is on Hamas. This is their doing.
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Just to be clear, will this be your stance for eternity now? As in, forget everything in the decades/century's which happened before last Saturday's attacks and disregard anything which happens from now on, every drop of civilian blood will be blamed on Hamas and nobody else? Israel have carte blanche to nuke Gaza and the West Bank and kill as many children as they wish and it'll all be Hamas's fault?

There are (at least) two fucking sides to this and none of them are innocent. Unbelievable.
 
How many more times does this need to repeated. Hamas do not sit in buildings in an area where there aren't other buildings with a big sign up saying Hamas is here. They will store weapons in mosques, hospitals, schools, civilian homes etc - this is a fact and cannot be disputed despite what people on here think. They base themselves deliberately in civilian areas. Today Israel has warned civilians in the North of Gaza to evacuate, what have Hamas said. Told them it's all fake propaganda and to remain where they are. When Hamas tell you to stay where you are, that's what a lot of people do as they are scared for their own lives.
 
Bazzmand Show said:
I think Israel are more than entitled to go to fucking town on Hamas, the situation is fucked though as there are civilians being caught up in this and being used as cover by Hamas. So it's a zero sum game.
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If I was to write the opposite of this I'd be heavily criticised and even called an anti Semite. Go to town on Hamas? So you basically mean destroy what's left of the country of Palestine?
 
paulchapo said:
It adds weight to the feeling they allowed it to happen. If you hear accounts from survivors they were almost all in disbelief at how long it took for the police and army to come to their aid. Also as it was 50 years to the day of another big incident surely they would have been an even more heightened state of alert. Odd one this.
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You are right that something doesn't pass the smell test with this one.
 
Bazzmand Show said:
I think Israel are more than entitled to go to fucking town on Hamas, the situation is fucked though as there are civilians being caught up in this and being used as cover by Hamas. So it's a zero sum game.
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The thing is, do Israel really know where they are? Are there even any Hamas leaders in Gaza? Many soldiers, but where are the key men?
 
The blue phantom said:
Not when there's thousands of civilians in the same vicinity they aren't. That's why it's been labelled War Crimes.
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I take issue with the bombardment, I don't have an issue with a ground invasion taking place as that can be more targeted. Israel have advised civilians to leave now and Hamas are asking them to stay put and effectively sacrifice themselves. They are cowards.
 
Bazzmand Show said:
I take issue with the bombardment, I don't have an issue with a ground invasion taking place as that can be more targeted. Israel have advised civilians to leave now and Hamas are asking them to stay put and effectively sacrifice themselves. They are cowards.
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Where do over a million people go ? Have you any idea what a million people actually look like in terms of mass? And in 24 hours?
 
The blue phantom said:
The thing is those Terrorist attacks last weekend couldn't of been stopped. The Ones which are active in front of the world's eyes at the moment can. Our own fuckin goverment has now decided to send a few ships to Israel for support. That's nice of them.
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To be fair, they might've been if that prick Netanyahu had bothered listening to what the Egyptians were telling him!
 
BringBackSwales said:
Hamas are evil scum. Palestinian children, women and most men are not evil scum. Terrorists slaughtering innocents is fucking evil; governments slaughtering innocents is more evil
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Not to compare, but it takes a significantly higher level of "fucked up" to walk into someone's home and shoot them point blank in the face - as opposed to bombs which accidentally take out civilians.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Because?
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Because a grand plot to allow terrorists into Israel, so that they can kill hundreds of civilians to start a war is just absurd. It would take hundreds of people being "in on it".

Hamas were able to exploit the Israeli defences and it was a well executed plan.
 
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