PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

if there was concrete evidence of false accounting that amounts to a criminal trial not a kangaroo premier league panel so on that basis alone they dont have the requisite evidence

Can you imagine the fall-out if they find the club, its owner and it's directors guilty of false accounting only for none of the relevant authorities to conclude there was sufficient evidence to proceed, or for them to proceed then find the club has no case to answer?

No way the PL, or any of its KCs, are taking that risk without absolutely undeniable evidence which they won't have, imo, even if it exists, which I doubt.
 
which is true but even if it isnt related doesnt ffp have a thing about investment from any party being at market rate?
What is market rate? Sponsorship is an investment. City have grown exponentially over the last 15 years, sponsors have all gotten value for their money. It would be difficult for the league to prove otherwise.
 
which is true but even if it isnt related doesnt ffp have a thing about investment from any party being at market rate?

It does.

An inflated sponsorship deal will raise a red flag, but the ease of signing big ticket sponsorship deals isn't scrutinised and neither is the number of sponsors. We all laugh at Utd's noodles and official dog food sponsorship's, but they led the way in this.

I don't know how old you are, but a tyre company being a major sponsor? Thirty years ago it was unthinkable.

Take a look at this...

https://www.mancity.com/club/partners
 
because it disguises owner investment as income.

Say Sheikh Mansour wants to spend £500 million on a bunch of players, but can't because he can only spend a certain amount based on City's income, what does he do? He gets all his mates to flush City's coffers with lots of juicy sponsorship deals and Bob's you Uncle, he's got his £500 million.

The Etihad sponsorship has been seen as fair market value, the Etisalat one being the contentious one was £30 million over two seasons. When the club was posting losses of over £150 million at the time should Mansour not have been sending larger amounts of money through them to meet the break even?

The club has been fined £49 million in 2014 and £46 million in 2020. They also took a squad reduction in the champions league. What advantage have the club gained from all alleged activity when you look at the sanctions that have already been imposed?
 
Can you imagine the fall-out if they find the club, its owner and it's directors guilty of false accounting only for none of the relevant authorities to conclude there was sufficient evidence to proceed, or for them to proceed then find the club has no case to answer?

No way the PL, or any of its KCs, are taking that risk without absolutely undeniable evidence which they won't have, imo, even if it exists, which I doubt.

You're right, these charges have huge implications, if proven this is fraud on a massive scale, we're talking criminal charges here. There's no way the PL have the evidence to prove any of this, not to the level required, they've painted themselves into a corner here, it'll be interesting to see how they extricate themselves.
 
It does.

An inflated sponsorship deal will raise a red flag, but the ease of signing big ticket sponsorship deals isn't scrutinised and neither is the number of sponsors. We all laugh at Utd's noodles and official dog food sponsorship's, but they led the way in this.

I don't know how old you are, but a tyre company being a major sponsor? Thirty years ago it was unthinkable.

Take a look at this...

https://www.mancity.com/club/partners
Inflated sponsorship from a tyre company , now there's a thing! :-)
 
The Etihad sponsorship has been seen as fair market value, the Etisalat one being the contentious one was £30 million over two seasons. When the club was posting losses of over £150 million at the time should Mansour not have been sending larger amounts of money through them to meet the break even?

The club has been fined £49 million in 2014 and £46 million in 2020. They also took a squad reduction in the champions league. What advantage have the club gained from all alleged activity when you look at the sanctions that have already been imposed?

To your first point, the answer is yes and no, if a £150 million loss was permissible at the time, then loss/break even was a moot point, if it was all a scam it's just figures on a piece of paper.

To your second point, that stitch up was a shifty rule change on player amortisation if memory serves.

It's best to see this as all politics, because that's what it is
 
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20 minutes of derby build up on Sky and I think we’ve been mentioned for all of 30 seconds. Sky are so desperate for United to win today.
 
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so answer me this, why shouldnt related companies be allowed to invest, whats the basis for not letting it happen?
They can. Nothing stopping them. The only restrictions are that the sponsorship has to be 'fair market value' (i.e., comparable to what an unconnected company would pay) and it must be declared in the accounts, along with any other transactions with related parties.

As an example, if when John Wardle owned JD Sports and was also City chairman, them sponsoring us would probably be classed as a related party transaction. It's not absolutely black and white what counts as a related party transaction though. If John Wardle was just a non-executive chairman of JD, with no active involvement in their day-to-day decisions, it might not be classed as related.

But even if it was classed as related, if that sponsorship was in line with what comparable clubs got, then it'd be OK. If it was three times the amount earned by comparable clubs though, it probably wouldn't be classed as fair market value. So a shirt sponsorship for £40m would probably be OK but a quarter page advert in the programme for the same amount probably wouldn't be seen as fair market value.

When UEFA originally sanctioned us in 2014, there were arguments about whether Etihad was a related party. UEFA claimed they were, and we disputed that. It was never formally resolved however, as UEFA accepted that the arrangement was broadly in line with fair market value. In 2019, CAS ruled that Etihad had received full value for their sponsorship.
 
If the State Airline is your sponsor and Sheikh Mansour is the State, or if a company run by your second cousin, twice removed, from the dad of your third wife, is your official bog roll sponsor, then it all looks pretty related to me.

Think you’re missing my point. None of those we’ve said are related parties. The Wrexham one isn’t a comparable.
 
the annoying thing is that phrase fair market value, how can an outside entity determine what fair market value equates to, market value is determined by the market itself, for example we all know a ferrari isnt worth 750k but if people are prepared to pay that, then that is the market value
 
It does.

An inflated sponsorship deal will raise a red flag, but the ease of signing big ticket sponsorship deals isn't scrutinised and neither is the number of sponsors. We all laugh at Utd's noodles and official dog food sponsorship's, but they led the way in this.

I don't know how old you are, but a tyre company being a major sponsor? Thirty years ago it was unthinkable.

Take a look at this...

https://www.mancity.com/club/partners
Not sure I'd highlight Nexen in any arguments about our sponsorship being legit ;)
 
No they're not.

What's on trial here is the business model of the oil rich Gulf States, what the Premier League is basically saying is anything and everything coming out of that part of the world is related.

That's a big case to prove, the cartel clubs that run the game have bitten off more than they can chew.
Maybe part of the way in which oil rich businessmen achieve original investment capital is different but the way it has been used by Sheikh M has been targeted.

His long term business plan has long term investment phases and this is what FFP targeted.
 

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