Middle East Conflict

Vic said:
Forget that particular video. Should settlers shooting landowners be arrested? If that wasn't happening, maybe children wouldn't throw stones at soldiers protecting settlers.
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Yes they should. And settlers who commit these crimes do get arrested. Perg
 
domalino said:
If you could ask the fallen of WW1 what they thought was more important - protesting and trying to stop the ongoing mass murder of civilians with British government support and weapons, or remembering their own deaths for the 105th year in a row, what do you think most of them would say?

Personally I think remembrance Sunday is one of our greatest 20th century ideas, a powerful and always important reminder to the country and especially our political leaders of the real costs of war that’s probably helped us stay out of conflicts - but it’s very hard to justify that commemoration of deaths a century ago is more important than innocent people dying right now, today.

If one has to be prioritised - personally I think we can do both - then it has to be the one that could stop people dying, and I truly believe if you could ask the people being commemorated, they’d think very little of those getting more angry about the disturbance of a ceremony than civilians dying in their thousands.

Ultimately it’s pretty simple- what’s more important? Remembering the dead, or trying to stop people dying?
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You’ve made a number of really good posts on this thread and I don‘t disagree with much of what you’ve said.

However, ideologues might just take a day off on Armistice Day as a mark of respect for the less vociferous, less politicised majority. Not to mention the dead, whose views on the Middle East conflict would possibly be as divided as those of the living.

Unless, of course, you’re suggesting a united and clearly impartial demonstration for peace by Israel and Palestine supporters… which is as likely as Maguire winning the Ballon d’Or.

Otherwise, some might be concerned about flag waving protests causing offence and fuelling further antipathy towards whichever creeds and factions the they are seen to represent. Let’s not forget the potential implications for refugees and asylum seekers down the line.

No, it’s not a question of prioritisation. Just taking a breather while different, quieter sentiments to prevail.

I realise it’s a big ask.

Please don’t respond with intellectual sophistry. It won’t change heart-felt views. In fact I challenge you to not respond at all, for once, and just scroll on.

Maybe that’s an even bigger ask. ;)
 
sir baconface said:
You’ve made a number of really good posts on this thread and I don‘t disagree with much of what you’ve said.

However, ideologues might just take a day off on Armistice Day as a mark of respect for the less vociferous, less politicised majority. Not to mention the dead, whose views on the Middle East conflict would possibly be as divided as those of the living.

Unless, of course, you’re suggesting a united and clearly impartial demonstration for peace by Israel and Palestine supporters… which is as likely as Maguire winning the Ballon d’Or.

Otherwise, some might be concerned about flag waving protests causing offence and fuelling further antipathy towards whichever creeds and factions the they are seen to represent. Let’s not forget the potential implications for refugees and asylum seekers down the line.

No, it’s not a question of prioritisation. Just taking a breather while different, quieter sentiments to prevail.

I realise it’s a big ask.

Please don’t respond with intellectual sophistry. It won’t change heart-felt views. In fact I challenge you to not respond at all, for once, and just scroll on.

Maybe that’s an even bigger ask. ;)
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Why would you write an essay in reply to me and then say “but please don’t reply”? Either you want to engage in a debate about this or you don’t. If you don’t it’s on you to not reply.

I’m not surprise though because Your comment says nothing. All of the well attended marches in the Uk have been peace marches, well attended by Jews and Muslims alike, showing that people can join together in unity to stop an atrocity.

So you pretending to care about how it will affect future hypothetical refugees rings incredibly hollow.


The question is still simple. What’s more important, commemorating the dead or trying to stop thousands more innocent people joining them?

Obviously you think the former is more important. I think the latter - actually I think both are doable and I’m sure there’ll be thousands of people at the peace marches wearing poppies and observing silence at 11am.
 
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domalino said:
Why would you write an essay in reply to me and then say “but please don’t reply”? Either you want to engage in a debate about this or you don’t. If you don’t it’s on you to not reply.

Your comment says nothing of value. The question is still, what’s more important, commemorating the long dead or trying to stop thousands more innocent people joining them?

Obviously you think the former is more important. I think the latter.
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I knew it. Inviting you to scroll on was akin to putting a Do Not Eat sign on a plate of hot sausage rolls.
 
sir baconface said:
I knew it. Inviting you to scroll on was akin to putting a Do Not Eat sign on a plate of hot sausage rolls.
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How many civilians need to die between now and next Sunday before you think it’s ok to March for an ceasefire and stop asking people to just “take a breather” from protesting it? Put a number on it.
 
Dax777 said:
Are you saying if a kid throws stones he should not be arrested?
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Yes - small kid throwing stones at a soldier or soldiers in body armour and they feel empowered to assault and detain a child. Its distasteful and well over the top - would you go into the street and assault a kid throwing stones in your direction - particularly from behind the safety of body armour and an assault rifle plus tear gas? Oh and be so confident in the optics you'd wear a face mask. Are you that tough or would you need close air support first?
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yes - small kid throwing stones at a soldier or soldiers in body armour and they feel empowered to assault and detain a child. Its distasteful and well over the top - would you go into the street and assault a kid throwing stones in your direction - particularly from behind the safety of body armour and an assault rifle plus tear gas? Oh and be so confident in the optics you'd wear a face mask. Are you that tough or would you need close air support first?
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Yes, I will. You don't need to assault anyone. If someone is breaking the law I'm fine arresting them. Always
 
sir baconface said:
You’ve made a number of really good posts on this thread and I don‘t disagree with much of what you’ve said.

However, ideologues might just take a day off on Armistice Day as a mark of respect for the less vociferous, less politicised majority. Not to mention the dead, whose views on the Middle East conflict would possibly be as divided as those of the living.

Unless, of course, you’re suggesting a united and clearly impartial demonstration for peace by Israel and Palestine supporters… which is as likely as Maguire winning the Ballon d’Or.

Otherwise, some might be concerned about flag waving protests causing offence and fuelling further antipathy towards whichever creeds and factions the they are seen to represent. Let’s not forget the potential implications for refugees and asylum seekers down the line.

No, it’s not a question of prioritisation. Just taking a breather while different, quieter sentiments to prevail.

I realise it’s a big ask.

Please don’t respond with intellectual sophistry. It won’t change heart-felt views. In fact I challenge you to not respond at all, for once, and just scroll on.

Maybe that’s an even bigger ask. ;)
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You grossly underrated Maguire. Any year now.
 
goalmole said:
Arresting them would be a mercy, it's usually a bullet in the head.
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And yet none of that transpired in the interaction we saw. Hence my conclusion that this particular soldier in that particular instance wasn't doing much wrong.

At least not until the end when he was overpowered and dropped teargas on the crew that overpowered him. Moreover he seemed to be getting walked away by another soldier who also wasn't shooting any stone throwers.
 
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