Middle East Conflict

lee_wsm said:
They well and truly have made life for themselves harder. They have helped the recruitment for their opposition for a whole generation. They have also made themselves appear just as bad if not worse so no one really sympathises with them
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It’s just the hostages virtually everyone wants freed. (Except Netanyahu and Starmer and a few others apparently).
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
What this is now showing is that the IDF have a policy, or tolerance at least, for killing civilians. In the past, when a story came up about civilians being killed there was always a caveat that they were doing something wrong, or linked to terrorism, now we see that they don’t have to do anything wrong and the IDF treat them as vermin.

The world is beginning to open its eyes to how Israel is operating, many now changing their tune and calling them out for what they are. As bad as Hamas, if not worse.
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They treat the Palestinians like meat mate. We’ve all seen footage of them killing unarmed kids before now who have just dared venture outside, never an enquiry or owt like that. They kill their own who presented no threat and of course there is an enquiry now.

Shoot first, and shoot later is their motto. The IDF are not a professional military, to even think of them as professional is a disservice to professional militaries across the world.
 
shevtheblue said:
Cameron said that there will never be peace and any hope for a 2 state solution with Hamas around, i agree. But the same can be said for the psychotic govt headed by that evil **** in Israel. Both sides need taking out, new regimes with a common goal to live together whether that's 2 states or one, freedom for all. Getting rid of just Hamas is not the answer, the Palestinians have been weaponised not only by Hamas, but by Israel themselves and the same has been done to the Israeli people who only see enemies on the other side. Of course its complex, but the West have not only allowed but are accountable for the hate that has been strung up there.
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It would seem that Cameron and Sunack have only just realised that what Isreal and the IDF are doing is unjustifiable. I think most of the British public realised this very early on. Hitting hospital with missiles. Indiscriminate artillery and air strikes were taking place from the off and it is pretty clear to most that these revenge attacks are just genocide of the Gaza People. Two wrongs don't make a right. But our esteemed leaders have only just woken up to the fact that they are way out of step with what is clearly right and British Public opinion. Too little too late Cameron and Sunack.
 
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BayernMan said:


Things seem to be going well…
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Given how prolific their social media output is you'd think the IDF might have something more substantial than cringe tiktok videos and slapstick propaganda by now. Leads me to the conclusion that the boots on the ground are getting their arses kicked .... maybe an active service of humiliating people at checkpoints isn't the best preparation for actual combat? No idea myself a question for the war horny amongst us.
 
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Bit of a strategic masterpiece going on in the Red Sea, even though it’s not peak shipping season the damage to Western Economies could be significant if it goes on for much longer, hence the change of tack by many politicians, as the IRA learned they have far more leverage when they go after economic targets
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Why/How does Isreal have this much power in the west? I mean they basically no better than Russia yet they have managed to get quite a bit of bias in our news media. Anything said about Israel is deemed anti semitic yet these people seem to hate everyone else.
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Where a lot of people go wrong in answering this question is in the assumption that Israel is somehow getting the US (and the West in general) to do its bidding. As if that relatively small country and economy is pushing the world's leading superpower around. If anything it's actually the other way round: the US supports Israel because it's in the US' interests to do so. Israel is the major military power in a strategically key region. It's useful to the US. And, to a considerable extent, Israel still depends on the US for its military and especially diplomatic support.

That's not to say that Israel is the puppet of the US or the West, or to deny that it has its own interests and agendas which are sometimes at odds with those of the US. Nor is it to say that Israel is simply the creation of the West. It's just about recognising that the overall asymmetry of power in the US-Israel relationship is massively in the US' favour.

It's important to get this right, both because seeing where the power actually lies can help to end the current slaughter and eventually the illegal occupation, and also because myths of limitless Israeli power manipulating the West are where criticism of Israel sometimes does become antisemitism, in my view.
 
KPXBLN said:
Where a lot of people go wrong in answering this question is in the assumption that Israel is somehow getting the US (and the West in general) to do its bidding. As if that relatively small country and economy is pushing the world's leading superpower around. If anything it's actually the other way round: the US supports Israel because it's in the US' interests to do so. Israel is the major military power in a strategically key region. It's useful to the US. And, to a considerable extent, Israel still depends on the US for its military and especially diplomatic support.

That's not to say that Israel is the puppet of the US or the West, or to deny that it has its own interests and agendas which are sometimes at odds with those of the US. Nor is it to say that Israel is simply the creation of the West. It's just about recognising that the overall asymmetry of power in the US-Israel relationship is massively in the US' favour.

It's important to get this right, both because seeing where the power actually lies can help to end the current slaughter and eventually the illegal occupation, and also because myths of limitless Israeli power manipulating the West are where criticism of Israel sometimes does become antisemitism, in my view.
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I suppose it would be anti semitic to ask why the media in general give a more biased pov on the Israeli/Gazan conflict, considering we have a free press who dont see Israel as fundamental to the West influence in that region. Geniune question, or are you (or someone) going to close that down with anti semitic accusations? Its a real question, why do the media quite obviously not share the same disgust that we do? How does that work? (Btw I dont have the thoughts that Jews have permeated our society and are controlling everything - thats crazy shit).
 
KPXBLN said:
Where a lot of people go wrong in answering this question is in the assumption that Israel is somehow getting the US (and the West in general) to do its bidding. As if that relatively small country and economy is pushing the world's leading superpower around. If anything it's actually the other way round: the US supports Israel because it's in the US' interests to do so. Israel is the major military power in a strategically key region. It's useful to the US. And, to a considerable extent, Israel still depends on the US for its military and especially diplomatic support.

That's not to say that Israel is the puppet of the US or the West, or to deny that it has its own interests and agendas which are sometimes at odds with those of the US. Nor is it to say that Israel is simply the creation of the West. It's just about recognising that the overall asymmetry of power in the US-Israel relationship is massively in the US' favour.

It's important to get this right, both because seeing where the power actually lies can help to end the current slaughter and eventually the illegal occupation, and also because myths of limitless Israeli power manipulating the West are where criticism of Israel sometimes does become antisemitism, in my view.
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Alternatively, isn't thinking of Israel as a puppet or client or vassal state of the USA (while denying it is) a bit antisemitic?
 
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