Atmosphere - 2023/24

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

The sports going public of the UK are different to other nations, we are naturally reserved. It needs something beyond the norm to arouse our passions. Surely Klopp should be aware of that by now.

I dont agree. I think it’s only a recent thing where people are more reserved at the football. Go to the darts or horse racing and the crowds aren’t reserved at all. It’s the same with away games.

Even if you go to a wider context, such as a festival or a night out in Manchester at the weekend. In general if it’s affordable and there’s booze we aren’t reserved at all

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I think this should be renamed the excuses thread.

 

[Manchester33]

The atmosphere each set of supporters can generate is cyclical and changes over time. Usually, fans create a brilliant atmosphere when they overperform (or underperform).

Here are some examples:

1. Newcastle are having their best period in the last two decades. Fans are brilliant and loud right now. When they got relegated, their gates were much lower, and the atmosphere was very poor.

2. Arsenal fans have improved in the last two/three years. No coincidence that they're back in the Champions League and challenging for the league title. For the previous decade, they were amongst the worst in the country for noise.

3. Stoke was heralded as one of the toughest away games in the country and their fans dubbed the noisiest when they had just come into the Premier League. Now they're an average championship club they barely fill half the stadium.

4. Leeds fans were mostly brilliant in the PL, but a couple of years earlier they were getting tiny gates for most games.

5. Does anyone remember Bolton under Big Sam? They got that place rocking often. Now, again, they struggle to fill half of the stadium, and it's silent.

6. Everton have been terrible the last few seasons, but their support in last season's 'run in' was pretty special. Other than the odd game there when they can raise the atmosphere, their support (especially away from home) is really, really quiet.

There are tons of examples, and each club will have their own periods where they've had brilliant atmospheres and shit atmospheres. The key influence on this is over/underachieving compared to their own club's recent history.

For us, our 'standard' season is winning the Premier League now. It's really hard to overperform for us. If we had a shit season, our atmosphere would probably be defiant and brilliant... better than what it would be if we cruised to another Premier League trophy.

There are things clubs can do to alter the atmosphere slightly (logistics, pricing, infrastructure, engagement), but on the whole, they'll have a much lesser effect than what's happening on the pitch.

 

[Gray]

I dont agree. I think it’s only a recent thing where people are more reserved at the football. Go to the darts or horse racing and the crowds aren’t reserved at all. It’s the same with away games.

Even if you go to a wider context, such as a festival or a night out in Manchester at the weekend. In general if it’s affordable and there’s booze we aren’t reserved at all

Not everybody in a football stadium is tanked up though.

 

[Manchester33]

Not everybody in a football stadium is tanked up though.

If they were, the atmosphere would be better.

 

[paulchapo]

Not only has Pep never gone that far, he’s never done anything that any normal thinking person would disagree agree with.
This forum just has too many touchy fuckers who love to be pissed off over anything and everything.

It's not just this forum though is it? You hear long standing fans of other clubs moaning they are being priced out of going, that they are fed up of tourists taking selfies and cheering opposition goals in the home end as they don't know the protocol in this country and get a slap and/or are booted out as a result.

Clubs can't have it all ways. They want the tourists spending £60+ for a ticket, then another £200 in the club shop, then moan when they don't generate an atmosphere. Tough shit you reap what you sow.

Hard working fans struggling to afford to go to games don't like being lectured to by millionaire managers and players either. It has a detrimental effect, people are more likely to think fuck you rather than be inspired by it.

As for our fans specifically we have always been different and loved a moan. Fuck me we've had plenty to moan about over the years. It's also a Mancunian trait, moody and morose, it's in our blood. I blame the weather lol.

 

[give it to gordon]

It's not just this forum though is it? You hear long standing fans of other clubs moaning they are being priced out of going, that they are fed up of tourists taking selfies and cheering opposition goals in the home end as they don't know the protocol in this country and get a slap and/or are booted out as a result.

Clubs can't have it all ways. They want the tourists spending £60+ for a ticket, then another £200 in the club shop, then moan when they don't generate an atmosphere. Tough shit you reap what you sow.

Hard working fans struggling to afford to go to games don't like being lectured to by millionaire managers and players either. It has a detrimental effect, people are more likely to think fuck you rather than be inspired by it.

As for our fans specifically we have always been different and loved a moan. Fuck me we've had plenty to moan about over the years. It's also a Mancunian trait, moody and morose, it's in our blood. I blame the weather lol.

It's not the weather I move saff 57 yrs ago and I'm still a moody little fucker lol

 

[paulchapo]

It's not the weather I move saff 57 yrs ago and I'm still a moody little fucker lol

Ha ha! This reminds me of an entertainer I knew in Tenerife from Accrington. He was chatting between songs and said, "I went home last week, bloody depressing. As I peered through the rain and gloom at all the poverty, closed down shops and desolation I thought, Ian, you really need to do something about this. So I did. I jumped back on a plane to Tenerife!"

 

[NJMCFC184]

Saw Koresh moaning but tbf to Liverpool fans I saw a tweet of a fan saying they were handing out flyers asking all fans sit down , we have it at Etihad with Pep moaning and the people he's usually moaning at sat behind him are corporate, need a big shake up over here.

Always said this "big 4" or "big 6" shit off the media doesn't help. Basically saying fans shouldn't care if your playing Palace, Bournemouth, Burnley etc so some fans go along with it and feel they only need to get up for fellow top teams.

 

[Donmcfc]

Not everybody in a football stadium is tanked up though.

It should be compulsory.

 

[its a Barm]

Free beer at every game to all that went to york should do it.

 

[LEXSTARproject]

The atmosphere each set of supporters can generate is cyclical and changes over time. Usually, fans create a brilliant atmosphere when they overperform (or underperform).

Here are some examples:

1. Newcastle are having their best period in the last two decades. Fans are brilliant and loud right now. When they got relegated, their gates were much lower, and the atmosphere was very poor.

2. Arsenal fans have improved in the last two/three years. No coincidence that they're back in the Champions League and challenging for the league title. For the previous decade, they were amongst the worst in the country for noise.

3. Stoke was heralded as one of the toughest away games in the country and their fans dubbed the noisiest when they had just come into the Premier League. Now they're an average championship club they barely fill half the stadium.

4. Leeds fans were mostly brilliant in the PL, but a couple of years earlier they were getting tiny gates for most games.

5. Does anyone remember Bolton under Big Sam? They got that place rocking often. Now, again, they struggle to fill half of the stadium, and it's silent.

6. Everton have been terrible the last few seasons, but their support in last season's 'run in' was pretty special. Other than the odd game there when they can raise the atmosphere, their support (especially away from home) is really, really quiet.

There are tons of examples, and each club will have their own periods where they've had brilliant atmospheres and shit atmospheres. The key influence on this is over/underachieving compared to their own club's recent history.

For us, our 'standard' season is winning the Premier League now. It's really hard to overperform for us. If we had a shit season, our atmosphere would probably be defiant and brilliant... better than what it would be if we cruised to another Premier League trophy.

There are things clubs can do to alter the atmosphere slightly (logistics, pricing, infrastructure, engagement), but on the whole, they'll have a much lesser effect than what's happening on the pitch.

@Manchester33 you and 1894 and City Matters have the power to sort this part out "There are things clubs can do to alter the atmosphere slightly (logistics, pricing, infrastructure, engagement), but on the whole, they'll have a much lesser effect than what's happening on the pitch."

To sort the stadium out once and for all, all the signing fans need to be in one section, it works everywhere else, the new North Stand is Manchester City's chance to get it right.

The Danny Wilson of this world needs to listen to the Jurgen Klopp and Pep of this world as the atmosphere is key to teams, to answer once and for all chanting when something happening on the pitch does not work as city play a passing game there not always something to cheer. So introducing City's answer to the Ashburton Army is a must as every club in the world now has these types of fans. Both Pep and Jurgen have managed in Germany and now the importance of the ultra section in the ground to cheer the teams on.

The new North Stand needs to be all safe standing except the Sky Bar section, we need to copy what has been done with Spurs and Everton sound stands not go the opposite way

 

[Brightwell Bros.]

I'm intrigued by the dynamics at Liverpool of opening that big old stand without a pre-existing organized fan culture. Some serious lessons to be learned at City, there...

That said, for all the talk from managers Liverpool, like City, have played a lot and lot of football in recent seasons. It is hard to treat every game like a final when you've had the highs of multiple actual finals.

 

[Manchester33]

@Manchester33 you and 1894 and City Matters have the power to sort this part out "There are things clubs can do to alter the atmosphere slightly (logistics, pricing, infrastructure, engagement), but on the whole, they'll have a much lesser effect than what's happening on the pitch."

To sort the stadium out once and for all, all the signing fans need to be in one section, it works everywhere else, the new North Stand is Manchester City's chance to get it right.

The Danny Wilson of this world needs to listen to the Jurgen Klopp and Pep of this world as the atmosphere is key to teams, to answer once and for all chanting when something happening on the pitch does not work as city play a passing game there not always something to cheer. So introducing City's answer to the Ashburton Army is a must as every club in the world now has these types of fans. Both Pep and Jurgen have managed in Germany and now the importance of the ultra section in the ground to cheer the teams on.

The new North Stand needs to be all safe standing except the Sky Bar section, we need to copy what has been done with Spurs and Everton sound stands not go the opposite way

We are trying our best.

FYI, we have met with City about the North Stand and given our perspective. Whether or not it will fall on deaf ears, I don't know. (In my opinion) The clubs' primary goal for extending the stand is to increase revenue. The atmosphere is a second point they claim to care about.

North Stand development has provisions in place for rail seating throughout (that won't be affected by the walking ambulant seating).

Our biggest gripe was the location of the GA+ tickets and ensuring the extension means more affordable tickets.

I get your point about the Ashburton army styled support, but I honestly do not think our fans as a whole would buy into it. We have tried certain things (drums/megaphones), and on the whole, the people doing it just get shit off hundreds of blues. It might work elsewhere in the stadium (like the current North Stand), but the culture in the South Stand is completely different and not overly welcoming for that style of support. I think there are good alternatives to this that I've been trying to introduce into the Etihad for a few years now..

The best example I can give is we had 3 corrugated metal strips installed on the floor towards the back of 115. The plan was that fans could stamp on them to make a beat. When we tested it in an empty stadium, it was brilliant (we could hear from the north stand very clearly), but when the row is full, and people stand on it, or multiple people try banging it at once, it didn't work. Since then, we've had an engineer (City fan who is also an 1894 member) draw up designs for individual corrugated metal sheets that could be installed on the Rails across the South Stand. Again, fans could kick or bang them (which would be louder than clapping along to a song). So far, the club hasn't had much appetite to try this, so we are where we are - despite having found a place in Stockport that would build them for us.

The point with this is that it helps us generate a better atmosphere in a more traditional British style.

 

[Eric Hitchmough]

We are trying our best.

FYI, we have met with City about the North Stand and given our perspective. Whether or not it will fall on deaf ears, I don't know. (In my opinion) The clubs' primary goal for extending the stand is to increase revenue. The atmosphere is a second point they claim to care about.

North Stand development has provisions in place for rail seating throughout (that won't be affected by the walking ambulant seating).

Our biggest gripe was the location of the GA+ tickets and ensuring the extension means more affordable tickets.

I get your point about the Ashburton army styled support, but I honestly do not think our fans as a whole would buy into it. We have tried certain things (drums/megaphones), and on the whole, the people doing it just get shit off hundreds of blues. It might work elsewhere in the stadium (like the current North Stand), but the culture in the South Stand is completely different and not overly welcoming for that style of support. I think there are good alternatives to this that I've been trying to introduce into the Etihad for a few years now..

The best example I can give is we had 3 corrugated metal strips installed on the floor towards the back of 115. The plan was that fans could stamp on them to make a beat. When we tested it in an empty stadium, it was brilliant (we could hear from the north stand very clearly), but when the row is full, and people stand on it, or multiple people try banging it at once, it didn't work. Since then, we've had an engineer (City fan who is also an 1894 member) draw up designs for individual corrugated metal sheets that could be installed on the Rails across the South Stand. Again, fans could kick or bang them (which would be louder than clapping along to a song). So far, the club hasn't had much appetite to try this, so we are where we are - despite having found a place in Stockport that would build them for us.

The point with this is that it helps us generate a better atmosphere in a more traditional British style.

You’re doing a cracking job mate against a backdrop of many wildly differing opinions while trying to convince the club to stop simply seeing dollar signs.

What is the general vibe you get from Danny Wilson? Are his hands tied or is scepticism his default?

 

[Manchester33]

You’re doing a cracking job mate against a backdrop of many wildly differing opinions while trying to convince the club to stop simply seeing dollar signs.

What is the general vibe you get from Danny Wilson? Are his hands tied or is he just sceptical?

Thanks. We'll keep trying our best.

Danny is a really nice bloke when you meet him. I think he tries his best and he agrees with a lot of the points we make. Generally, the people we deal with at City are all brilliant, intelligent, hard-working people.

I think there are so many spinning plates at City that the atmosphere generally is quite far down the list of priorities. Danny wants a better atmosphere, but he is also a realist, and the fact of the matter is we generate less than half the match-day revenue compared to United. A clear business case exists to extend the North Stand and fill it with corporates and expensive match day tickets. That's what pays these people's wages - not us lot singing and making a racket every other weekend. It's also worth mentioning that Danny is one of a dozen (or so) influential people involved in this though. So what he pushes for might not be what someone like Roel is pushing for.

That doesn't mean that both parties can't win, and I'm hoping that we can find a good middle ground, but let's see.

 

[Eric Hitchmough]

Thanks. We'll keep trying our best.

Danny is a really nice bloke when you meet him. I think he tries his best and he agrees with a lot of the points we make. Generally, the people we deal with at City are all brilliant, intelligent, hard-working people.

I think there are so many spinning plates at City that the atmosphere generally is quite far down the list of priorities. Danny wants a better atmosphere, but he is also a realist, and the fact of the matter is we generate less than half the match-day revenue compared to United. A clear business case exists to extend the North Stand and fill it with corporates and expensive match day tickets. That's what pays these people's wages - not us lot singing and making a racket every other weekend. It's also worth mentioning that Danny is one of a dozen (or so) influential people involved in this though. So what he pushes for might not be what someone like Roel is pushing for.

That doesn't mean that both parties can't win, and I'm hoping that we can find a good middle ground, but let's see.

Really interesting insight. Hopefully he keeps pushing, and at the very least a compromise can be struck that suits all parties. Easier said than done, I’m sure.

Keep fighting the good fight anyway mate. I know I’m not the only one who very much appreciates it.

 

[LEXSTARproject]

Thanks. We'll keep trying our best.

Danny is a really nice bloke when you meet him. I think he tries his best and he agrees with a lot of the points we make. Generally, the people we deal with at City are all brilliant, intelligent, hard-working people.

I think there are so many spinning plates at City that the atmosphere generally is quite far down the list of priorities. Danny wants a better atmosphere, but he is also a realist, and the fact of the matter is we generate less than half the match-day revenue compared to United. A clear business case exists to extend the North Stand and fill it with corporates and expensive match day tickets. That's what pays these people's wages - not us lot singing and making a racket every other weekend. It's also worth mentioning that Danny is one of a dozen (or so) influential people involved in this though. So what he pushes for might not be what someone like Roel is pushing for.

That doesn't mean that both parties can't win, and I'm hoping that we can find a good middle ground, but let's see

@Manchester33 thanks for the reply, You and certain members at City Matters are trying your best, so if Danny Wilson is with you, who in the club is making it try to go the opposite way.

To make the North Stand full of the same kind of supporters we need to copy what work elsewhere LAFC have done with the 3252 which is a supporters section in their version of the Yellow Wall at their stadium.

There could be a massive group called The Kippax for example and the 1894 would be part of that but keeping its own identity. The Kippax would be in control of the North Stand and would speak to the club on matters regarding it, it would come with its own website and social making it open to everyone who wants to join.

The media have now picked up on what Jurgen Klopp has said, but they are coming out with the usual rubbish, people are phoning in saying that the stands are full of tourists, you have your tourists but have so ultra section you would not have them as this is where the core support is with access via website

The 3252

the3252.net

 

[Dodge]

Thanks. We'll keep trying our best.

Danny is a really nice bloke when you meet him. I think he tries his best and he agrees with a lot of the points we make. Generally, the people we deal with at City are all brilliant, intelligent, hard-working people.

I think there are so many spinning plates at City that the atmosphere generally is quite far down the list of priorities. Danny wants a better atmosphere, but he is also a realist, and the fact of the matter is we generate less than half the match-day revenue compared to United. A clear business case exists to extend the North Stand and fill it with corporates and expensive match day tickets. That's what pays these people's wages - not us lot singing and making a racket every other weekend. It's also worth mentioning that Danny is one of a dozen (or so) influential people involved in this though. So what he pushes for might not be what someone like Roel is pushing for.

That doesn't mean that both parties can't win, and I'm hoping that we can find a good middle ground, but let's see.

Keep fighting the good fight mate.

In your meetings with Danny, have you brought up the shambles at Istanbul? It may be more a City Matters thing, but just thought I'd ask.

I still find it incomprehensible that the Club still haven't commented in support of its travelling fans.

Winds me up no end.

 

[Manchester33]

Keep fighting the good fight mate.

In your meetings with Danny, have you brought up the shambles at Istanbul? It may be more a City Matters thing, but just thought I'd ask.

I still find it incomprehensible that the Club still haven't commented in support of its travelling fans.

Winds me up no end.

I personally have not, however I know Alex in City Matters has done tons of work on this. He’s a top, top guy and if every city fan knew the time and effort he’d put in to it, I doubt he’d ever have to buy himself a pint again!