North Stand Construction Discussion

bluesmith said:
That's exactly what it is, so we can compare it to 9320 etc, i dont think anyone would argue that the 9320 has a similar atmosphere to the singing sections. We should be trying to create a better atmosphere throughout the new stand than the current singing sections.
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It doesn't need to be the 93:20 though. It doesn't need to offer padded seats. You get a standard seat like the rest of the stand, at the bottom of the tier in prime seats which deserve a premium cost and you get access to your own bar which is pay as you go. The season ticket cost is slightly more than the rest of the stand, but not dramatically more. Then it will work fine, but I fully understand the cynicism around it - and fundamentally it's about the overall perception of the stand. We're picturing big games with banners and noise and having people emerge late on and not joining in will make a negative impact. You could do with your most hardcore fans being at the front of it to do the banners, and at the back to make the most of the roof. But we're talking about a huge stand with about 10,000 people in it. We can take 2,500 to an away game and make a racket, so grouping a good 9,000 fans together will do the job regardless of who is sat amongst them.
 
Coatigan said:
We are arguing a distant hypothetical from two set pre-concieved positions. Who ultimately turns out to be right, time will tell, and it may even vary match to match.

The things I am however fairly confident on.
- those 640 seats are not in a bubble, they are not isolated from the rest of the stand, the atmosphere, the noise etc.
- they are a small proportion, and it really would take every single one of them being a dud, to make a very small difference to a 12000 person stand.
- The layout as is, is that flexible that it allows for a number of ultimate possibilities for those seats, even when built. So who is in them or how they are priced and sold, might not be as black and white as it is currently made out.
- for your own experience of hospitality, which I neither doubt nor debate, there are multiple examples of contrasting experiences. It is a percentage and numbers game, and I myself think they are too big to broadbrush.

If none of the above gives you a bit of comfort, then it will just be a case of time will tell. We will no doubt revisit this conversation then, and as you say a few rounds inbetween too. Hopefully we won't get on each other's tits in the meantime ;)
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I‘m still somewhat open minded about the proposed hospitality section, but deep down I know the fans in it won’t continually contribute to the singing and atmosphere on NSL2. I’m not saying the fans in there won’t stand up, sing, and join in at all, I’m saying they will do it sporadically, just like the fans did yesterday in ESL3. 3 different chants. Being honest, which I try and always be, there are fans like that who stand in SSL1 who prefer to watch the match and don’t sing, but there aren’t many of them.
 
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supercity88 said:
It doesn't need to be the 93:20 though. It doesn't need to offer padded seats. You get a standard seat like the rest of the stand, at the bottom of the tier in prime seats which deserve a premium cost and you get access to your own bar which is pay as you go. The season ticket cost is slightly more than the rest of the stand, but not dramatically more. Then it will work fine, but I fully understand the cynicism around it - and fundamentally it's about the overall perception of the stand. We're picturing big games with banners and noise and having people emerge late on and not joining in will make a negative impact. You could do with your most hardcore fans being at the front of it to do the banners, and at the back to make the most of the roof. But we're talking about a huge stand with about 10,000 people in it. We can take 2,500 to an away game and make a racket, so grouping a good 9,000 fans together will do the job regardless of who is sat amongst them.
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Totally agree, but at the minute the design is 100% for it to be a premium padded seat area. Hopefully the club see sense and go down your route if they are insistent on a premium priced option in that area.
 
The club could quite easily expand existing hospitality seating in other parts of the ground to make up those 700 hospitality seats proposed for the front of NSL2. It really isn’t the end of the world and losing the revenue from 700 seats at the front of NSL2 if the club did that. For arguments sake 8000 existing season tickets holders and match going Citizen card holders could apply to move into NSL2 from other parts of the ground freeing up 8000 seats in other stands and blocks.
 
bluesmith said:
That's exactly what it is, so we can compare it to 9320 etc, i dont think anyone would argue that the 9320 has a similar atmosphere to the singing sections. We should be trying to create a better atmosphere throughout the new stand than the current singing sections.
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My thing with joining in singing is in my experience more people than not join in if those around are singing, those same people won't stand or sing if nobody else around them are.So if that is a home end and the rest of the blocks are singing there's a fair chance most of those in the premium seats would join in.
Another reason may don't join in is singing needs to spread around the stadium from block to block, same as a Poznzn,because of that reluctance to sing until your neighbours are,usually by the time it gets much further than the SS it's petered out.
 
blueparrot said:
My thing with joining in singing is in my experience more people than not join in if those around are singing, those same people won't stand or sing if nobody else around them are.So if that is a home end and the rest of the blocks are singing there's a fair chance most of those in the premium seats would join in.
Another reason may don't join in is singing needs to spread around the stadium from block to block, same as a Poznzn,because of that reluctance to sing until your neighbours are,usually by the time it gets much further than the SS it's petered out.
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And therein lies the problem a new home end needs to be full of people who will sing whatever not because their neighbours are singing.
 
supercity88 said:
It doesn't need to be the 93:20 though. It doesn't need to offer padded seats. You get a standard seat like the rest of the stand, at the bottom of the tier in prime seats which deserve a premium cost and you get access to your own bar which is pay as you go. The season ticket cost is slightly more than the rest of the stand, but not dramatically more. Then it will work fine, but I fully understand the cynicism around it - and fundamentally it's about the overall perception of the stand. We're picturing big games with banners and noise and having people emerge late on and not joining in will make a negative impact. You could do with your most hardcore fans being at the front of it to do the banners, and at the back to make the most of the roof. But we're talking about a huge stand with about 10,000 people in it. We can take 2,500 to an away game and make a racket, so grouping a good 9,000 fans together will do the job regardless of who is sat amongst them.
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OK, Huddersfield fans weren’t great compared to what other away fans have been in cup games in SSL3, but even yesterday showed what a racket 5000 fans make on SSL3. 1000 Huddersfield fans were put SSL2 due to netting and safety precautions on SSL3. Imagine the noise, atmosphere and support generated by 8000 City fans in NSL2 if the club got NSL2 right.
 
Was looking at those South Stand corners yesterday before KO and thinking about how rough they look. I know they’re ’temporary’ but let’s face it, they’ll be there for another 10 years at least.

Would make a huge difference with screens there and at least paper over the cracks a bit. The seating there could fit under the screens still as well.

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bluesmith said:
And therein lies the problem a new home end needs to be full of people who will sing whatever not because their neighbours are singing.
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I don't think there are 8000 of those,but there are plenty that want to sing as long as their neighbours are and there is not reason to think some of those aren't those prepared to pay a bit more for a couple of perks.
 
In my pre fan consultation and pre planning application naivety I had visions of AC Milan’s Curva South morphing into NSL2. Before :-) After. :-(

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HelloCity said:
Was looking at those South Stand corners yesterday before KO and thinking about how rough they look. I know they’re ’temporary’ but let’s face it, they’ll be there for another 10 years at least.

Would make a huge difference with screens there and at least paper over the cracks a bit. The seating there could fit under the screens still as well.

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Wasn’t that the original proposal to put screens in one or both corners?
 
bluesmith said:
I dont disagree but adding 700 seats to the bottom of what should be a home end adds about a million quid to the turnover over a year. I'm not sure that outweighs the need to create a better atmosphere personally.
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It will make zero difference to atmosphere and most of those 700 could end up pissed and create far more noise than a regular Joe.

Far too much is being made of this tiny section, I have said before I find the reaction to it slightly bizarre when our club is investing over 300m Pounds on an incredible build which will improve the match day and non match day experience for thousands of regular fans.
 
jrb said:
The club should. They now give 10% of away tickets to the youth. It's worked great. With no complaints from the away going FOC's or OSC branch members. City should put aside a % (percentage) of PL home tickets for qualifying families. How the club do and manage that is up to them. They can do it if they want to do it. That is the issue.
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Worked great the few. It would be better for the club reward the loyalty of fans who have earnt the right to be given the privilege based on attendance. It feels like the club are marginising the so called legacy fans and in my books that goes against the grain. The 10% to younger fans is wrong. Fans should earn the right to these privileges. It all needs a little more thinking about with engagement with the supporter branches. Decisions are being made by people with no (or little) connection with the club, focusing on ticking boxes and prioritising growth over the thoughts of feelings of the supporters. More than ever we should be together, but the leadership are divided the club into groups and sub groups.
 
Keeper! said:
It will make zero difference to atmosphere and most of those 700 could end up pissed and create far more noise than a regular Joe.

Far too much is being made of this tiny section, I have said before I find the reaction to it slightly bizarre when our club is investing over 300m Pounds on an incredible build which will improve the match day and non match day experience for thousands of regular fans.
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Thats your opinion many of us differ. The evidence from existing areas in the ground show it does make a difference.
 
bluesmith said:
Thats your opinion many of us differ. The evidence from existing areas in the ground show it does make a difference.
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So your getting upset over 600 seats that the club have not yet even said what they are doing with?

You upset over the new covered area City sq to?, or the hotel? or the museum with all our trophies?
 
Keeper! said:
So your getting upset over 600 seats that the club have not yet even said what they are doing with?

You upset over the new covered area City sq to?, or the hotel? or the museum with all our trophies?
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I'm not getting upset at all i just think we should do it differently and the club have said what they are currently doing with it.

Where have i said anything about being upset with city sq, the hotel or the museum with all our trophies?
 
bluesmith said:
I'm not getting upset at all i just think we should do it differently and the club have said what they are currently doing with it.

Where have i said anything about being upset with city sq, the hotel or the museum with all our trophies?
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They haven't said, it's on the plans but so is safe standing, the plans will be a catch all. They haven't said what will definitely happen with any of the seats in the North stand,or anywhere else in the ground for that matter.They may not even know for sure themselves.
 
blueparrot said:
They haven't said, it's on the plans but so is safe standing, the plans will be a catch all. They haven't said what will definitely happen with any of the seats in the North stand,or anywhere else in the ground for that matter.They may not even know for sure themselves.
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They have said as they have asked the designers to design it and the contractors to price it. Theres a chance it changed but it's unlikely in my opinion.
 
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