Ref Watch City Games - 2023/24

Paladin said:
Of course I don't believe that, and I don't think many on here believe it either. To say there's a conspiracy is an extreme position to take. To say every referee is honest in every single decision is the opposite extreme. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The United goal from the Rashford offside was explained away as a mistake, and Webb said we wouldn't expect to see that decision given ever again. But that just doesn't cut it. Attwell, Cann and Oliver were all involved in that decision - three of our most experienced officials. It defies belief that they could have all thought that was a correct decision. And if it was all above board, they have the means to prove it by releasing the audio. Or even let some impartial adjudicator listen to the audio to show it was not a stitch up.
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My feeling is they are 'encouraged' to keep the game interesting as a contest to keep neutral TV viewers on the hook, and their decision making is based around that. This makes our beautiful game more of an entertainment product than a sport which is the way it's been going since the beginning of the PL era .

You look at some of our games against lesser teams where one of their players could easily have been sent off early in the game, but weren't. Same in big/important games like the Dipper's game when Wee Jimmy Milner could/should have been given AT LEAST 3 yellow cards, or the that Rag's game last season. Had those kind of decisions gone our way we'd have absolutely walked the league, and audience figures would have plummeted.
 
Paladin said:
Of course I don't believe that, and I don't think many on here believe it either. To say there's a conspiracy is an extreme position to take. To say every referee is honest in every single decision is the opposite extreme. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The United goal from the Rashford offside was explained away as a mistake, and Webb said we wouldn't expect to see that decision given ever again. But that just doesn't cut it. Attwell, Cann and Oliver were all involved in that decision - three of our most experienced officials. It defies belief that they could have all thought that was a correct decision. And if it was all above board, they have the means to prove it by releasing the audio. Or even let some impartial adjudicator listen to the audio to show it was not a stitch up.
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What do you think happened behind the scenes then?
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
My feeling is they are 'encouraged' to keep the game interesting as a contest to keep neutral TV viewers on the hook, and their decision making is based around that. This makes our beautiful game more of an entertainment product than a sport which is the way it's been going since the beginning of the PL era .

You look at some of our games against lesser teams where one of their players could easily have been sent off early in the game, but weren't. Same in big/important games like the Dipper's game when Wee Jimmy Milner could/should have been given AT LEAST 3 yellow cards, or the that Rag's game last season. Had those kind of decisions gone our way we'd have absolutely walked the league, and audience figures would have plummeted.
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Bingo. And if you look at the way City are being targeted with new rules to "level up" the club's finances with its rivals it beggars belief that people can't accept the same organisation is easily capable of levelling up performances on the pitch as well.

All imho, of course.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
So how do you think they have coordinated this conspiracy over the last 40 years?
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Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Why can't it just be that certain referees favour certain clubs, or certain referees despise City?

Lahoz for one, never showed us any leniency or favour and always seemed to go against us. It's well rumoured that City had a dossier to show that one referee held a bias against us, and that referee was removed from City games before retiring to the USA. Also that City had a dossier of evidence to show that Raheem Sterling was unfairly treated by referees. Numerous referees have stated publicly that they favoured United, and there is evidence that United had influence in the selection of referees. (Winter never refereed United again, after having the audacity to dismiss Roy Keane).

There is no conspiracy needed here. It's just plainly evident that certain teams are favoured and certain teams are prejudiced against. Webb and his predecessors should not be appointing these biased referees in certain games.
 
i'm just watching the PItcam Highlights of the EFC game and I was at the point where the ball is swung into EFC area. It's just over the head of Phil and Tarkowski gets a full head on it and also gets two hands into the back of Phil and sends him sprawling. A second or two later Hooooolihaaan gently places his hand in Tarkowski's back the force of which wouldn't topple an empty lifesize cardboard box - but the EFC man just slumps to the floor. Which one got the free kick? Foden or Tarkowski?
 
Paladin said:
Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Why can't it just be that certain referees favour certain clubs, or certain referees despise City?

Lahoz for one, never showed us any leniency or favour and always seemed to go against us. It's well rumoured that City had a dossier to show that one referee held a bias against us, and that referee was removed from City games before retiring to the USA. Also that City had a dossier of evidence to show that Raheem Sterling was unfairly treated by referees. Numerous referees have stated publicly that they favoured United, and there is evidence that United had influence in the selection of referees. (Winter never refereed United again, after having the audacity to dismiss Roy Keane).

There is no conspiracy needed here. It's just plainly evident that certain teams are favoured and certain teams are prejudiced against. Webb and his predecessors should not be appointing these biased referees in certain games.
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I'd like to see a statistic on the number of free kicks awarded in the last quarter hour for the opposition at The Etihad. Every tackle seems to result in a free kick that they can launch into our area.
 
cleavers said:
I think one or two are robots, programmed to be anti City decision wise. Var is used to re-referee games when it suits the team.

What annoys me most is the inconsistency from game to game (team to team in fact), we are definitely refereed more stringently than "some others", what's really sad, it's now turned up in the womens game too. On Sunday, Bunny Shaw was clearly elbowed in the face in the box against arsenal, result, arsenal goal kick, if the referee didn't actually see it, she should be sacked.
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Refs are human. They are susceptible to crowd and player influence. Unless robots are employed, that will never change. Fans of each team think they are swayed against their own side as they only remember the negative decisions and not the positive.

The mindset of having to moan about every refereeing performance regardless of result will always be alien to me. The result doesn’t seem to matter to some people. As long as they can shout corruption in the designated threads, they’re happy and anyone who doesn’t have the same need is contrarian, condescending [add other adjectives] etc.

The explanation ”just look how we are refereed” isn’t a reason. it’s a gut feeling based on tribalism. Refs will always have to make marginal calls. Some will go for your team and some will go against it. It’s the nature of the game.

Ultimately, people love a good moan.
 
halfcenturyup said:
:)

Ivan Toney should have tried that defence: "I wasn't breaking the betting rules. I was being swayed by greed and financial benefit".
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As non-sequiturs go, this is right up there, but given your total lack of objectivity on refereeing, it is of no surprise to me.

Can we go back to ignoring each other’s posts please? You’re better boring the fuck out of people on the charges thread.
 
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
i'm just watching the PItcam Highlights of the EFC game and I was at the point where the ball is swung into EFC area. It's just over the head of Phil and Tarkowski gets a full head on it and also gets two hands into the back of Phil and sends him sprawling. A second or two later Hooooolihaaan gently places his hand in Tarkowski's back the force of which wouldn't topple an empty lifesize cardboard box - but the EFC man just slumps to the floor. Which one got the free kick? Foden or Tarkowski?
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This level of disparity pisses me right off. It happens so often that often it can't be anything other than on purpose.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Refs are human. They are susceptible to crowd and player influence. Unless robots are employed, that will never change. Fans of each team think they are swayed against their own side as they only remember the negative decisions and not the positive.

The mindset of having to moan about every refereeing performance regardless of result will always be alien to me. The result doesn’t seem to matter to some people. As long as they can shout corruption in the designated threads, they’re happy and anyone who doesn’t have the same need is contrarian, condescending [add other adjectives] etc.

The explanation ”just look how we are refereed” isn’t a reason. it’s a gut feeling based on tribalism. Refs will always have to make marginal calls. Some will go for your team and some will go against it. It’s the nature of the game.

Ultimately, people love a good moan.
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Weird how players are booked for showing emotion, but refs are human and can be swayed by the crowd and player influence and its all ok.

I don't think there is a conspiracy, by the way. They are all pretty much useless. Just more useless for some teams than others.
 
danielwood5 said:
So you agree that referees make decisions based on who the team involved is, or their 'history', rather than applying the Laws of the Game fairly and equally?
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No, I’m saying that referees are human and the only way to remove any subconscious bias is to have robots as referees.
 
ballbag said:
Weird how players are booked for showing emotion, but refs are human and can be swayed by the crowd and player influence and its all ok.

I don't think there is a conspiracy, by the way. They are all pretty much useless. Just more useless for some teams than others.
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Players are booked for shooting at officials. You don’t often see referees shouting in players faces and booting the ball into the crowd etc.

What people want from referees is impossible. Literally. Whilst they are human, they will make decisions made with subconscious bias, for and against all fans’ teams.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Players are booked for shooting at officials. You don’t often see referees shouting in players faces and booting the ball into the crowd etc.

What people want from referees is impossible. Literally. Whilst they are human, they will make decisions made with subconscious bias, for and against all fans’ teams.
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Players are booked for celebrating goals too.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
What do you think happened behind the scenes then?
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I think this. Fernandez ran straight to Cann pointing out that Rashford didn't touch the ball, as if this is the sole determining factor for whether or not he was offside. Cann replied "I know, I'm going to recommend the goal should stand". He did recommend this to Attwell. All this within 5 seconds of the goal being scored.

Attwell has no backbone or independent thought process. His experienced assistant, recently back from officiating the Workd Cup final says the goal was ok, so that's good enough for him. Goal!

Was there any proper discussion? No. Was Oliver asked his opinion? Probably not, or he might have declined to comment as it wasn't for him to intervene on a matter of opinion, only fact.

Should Oliver have intervened? A hundred times yes! He should have said "What the hell are you two playing at? This is the most obvious offside ever. Take your time, go look at the screen, and make the correct decision based on all the circumstances".

The result? Attwell makes a mistake, but only a slight one, and it is after all a matter of opinion whether or not Rashford interfered with play. Cann gets away scot-free for his failure to know the meaning of interference. Oliver says it's nothing to do with him, as he wasn't consulted, and it's an opinion based decision, not a factual one.

All three of them guilty of favouring the mighty Manchester United, not wishing to go against the establishment for fear of career repercussions. Webb equally as bad for not fully investigating and punishing them. It's all about protecting the brand though.

What are your thoughts? Brain farts all round?
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
No, I’m saying that referees are human and the only way to remove any subconscious bias is to have robots as referees.
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How do you explain the penalty that Wolves got on Sunday. The fellah made sure that he tripped himself up by dragging his leg across the City defender. No appeal from Wolves, and Wolves fans laughing at the decision. I can't remember laughing myself as much at such a decision. A human shouldn't make that kind of error considering the experience and number of games they'd reffed. I can put it in the 'useless' reffing category but at this level a mistake like that should result in a termination of the fellah's appointments.

I just wonder whether, after a VAR intervention and a goggle at the pitchside monitor had they been available, he would have changed his mind.
 
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