Semi automatic offsides is a step in the right direction. Take that decision away from the clowns.
Forest yesterday and now this ...........white elephant? I always thought it was going to be.
Good read that.I think the issue is, referees are judged by impossible standards against rules that aren't fit for purpose and are ever-changing with technology.
A lot of it VAR is to blame but VAR in essence isn't a problem, it's the rules brought in to accommodate VAR are a problem. It's this implementation of the rules that has a lot of us sick to death of VAR.
Clear and obvious needs a rethink.
VAR: What did you see happen?
Ref: I saw this...
VAR: That's fine or review on monitor and make your own decision (do not show incident in slow motion).
The handball rule. Last year I actually thought was working. In essence every handball where the arm was away from the body was a penalty. It was wrong from a deliberate standpoint but at least it was consistent. They've moved away from this now though, where some are given and some arent and I get why this is happening. Most handballs just aren't deliberate, including the Young one, the Grealish one and Wan Bissaka's one against Coventry which all happened at the weekend. They either need to go back to accidental handball or awarding every pen again. The in-between just leads to more inconsistencies.
The PGMOL does need to improve the standard but I get why its hard to do. Lower leagues dont have VAR so the training pathway is much harder. Plus who'd be a ref at the moment with the abuse they get. I probably would given the money they get but the abuse is brutal.
I do think clubs and fans need to grow up with the statements put out. I'm sick to death of hearing about the officials every week, they make mistakes and have been making them for decades. The talk around it in the last few years has gotten worse. Sometimes they're shit but a lot of the time it only gets called out because the team that are calling out the decisions have been just as shit that day.
Sometimes though the officials aren't as shit as some think. TNT's commentators were essentially calling the referee in the Lille-Villa game an idiot last week for failing to send Martinez off in the shootout. It wasn't until a producer pointed out the rules around yellow cards in shootouts had changed that they realised they were wrong. Did they apologise though? Did they fuck.
Semi-automated offsides are coming in, that's worked in Europe and the World Cup, so there's one change that makes the game better and hopefully helps referees.
I know that reads like I'm defending PGMOL, I'm not, as an organisation they are a mess, the training isn't up to standard and they've not done enough to simplify the implementation of the rules. It does feel like a mess of a job to do though.
I suppose I'm just sick of it being about decisions the ref has made every week and not the football being played on the pitch. Forest have scored the 4th least goals and conceded the 5th most, on top of having 4 points deducted. The refs aren't the only reason they're fighting relegation.
Good read that.
The opening two paragraphs are absolutely spot on.
The rules leave such a grey area that it's inevitable that people query how the hell they are being implemented game by game.
Hate to say it but we are all going to have to accept that officials are most likely going to have affection towards a particular club. If they didn't, they probably wouldn't have ever started to become a ref and work very hard to achieve the levels that they have.
We have to agree on professional integrity in the same way that we believe that should Pep rotate our players for a tie against Barca, that he has done it for the right reasons and not to 'throw the game ' regardle of the outcome.
Or should Stones concede a penalty whilst playing Barnsley that it isn't because of his boyhood allegiance etc etc etc.
As you opened with, simplifying the rule book that are then aided by the implementation of technology is the most important change that could be made whilst ensuring that the ref's ar so well protected from corruption or influence.
For what it's worth, didn't Clattenburg disappear overnight under quite a dark grey cloud? Not sure his testament should be taken as absolute gospel to be fair............
Forest yesterday and now this ...........white elephant? I always thought it was going to be.
In my job I regularly come across friends and colleagues from previous roles / companies etc - I never put myself in a position where I could be accused of showing bias.Agreed. This nonsense about which club a referee supports should stop. It was set up in a time when anyone thought such things were important. Just do away with it and realise referees, if left to it, are doing their best in a difficult environment. Get the best referees in the most challenging matches.
There are ways to monitor and punish (if necessary) favouratism.
Not true at all given their position and only 5/6 games to go. But it’s still not definitive!Using this rationale, Forest shouldn’t be arsed about some low end league game in April. ;-)
Before we condemn Forest we should see if they have any evidence that Atwell is biased. I have no faith in Atwell after the Derby last year. They still haven’t released the audio for that.What substance?
Before we condemn Forest we should see if they have any evidence that Atwell is biased. I have no faith in Atwell after the Derby last year. They still haven’t released the audio for that.
This is the crucial point. The tech is not accurate for a decision based on a few millimetres because of the frame speed. So these very marginal decisions can’t be trusted. The way VAR is used must take account of the margin of error.I was listening to talkSPORT yesterday and Danny Kelly i think it was on there said he knows a very well respected cinematographer claimed these clowns using VAR aren’t even using the right technology and it’s impossible to call offsides with what there using
The fuckers are just making it up as they go along and wonder why clubs are getting pissed off
The media have turned on the Forest owner en mass. Is it because he is not English or American? Let’s wait for the evidence before we have a witch-hunt against Forest. What does Clattenberg know about Attwell? As I said let’s hear the audio first. We never heard one from Old Trafford last season. That time Attwell overruled the linesman who raised his flag And didn’t even look at the screen. Still no explanation. Rashford was ten yards offside and shielded the ball for Fernandez. He didn’t take himself out of play. No subjectivity here.Clattenberg was correct in what he said, why didn’t he send the ref over to the screen? It’s very sinister that Neville is saying Clattenberg should resign from his consultancy role with Forest when what he has stated is absolutely right. I wonder what his take would have been if someone had been saying this on behalf of his beloved rags?
Defo agree with what you said about Neville and when he says nothing to see here, the cameraman and sports editor obviously follows his lead and it's ignored. I've seen that countless times watching games and funnily enough it never happens when the red mardarses are playing.As i have said previously its very sinister how ratboy and spitty have started refereeing games by proxy, how many times on sunday during the fulham vs dippers game did an incident happen and ratboy just went nah theres nothing in that and the coverage was immediately moved on , whereas during the dippers game against us he was like ooh i think doku could be in trouble here and it was replayed about 84 times in desperate attempt to drive the narrative.
Neville is saying that clattenburg should resign from forest for stating a fact but sits quite comfortably at sky which he uses as his own personal propaganda channel, its a bit pot kettle back, the bigger problem for me is the way the press and the fa immediately went into overdrive saying that forest were wrong, clattenburg was wrong, nothing to see here and forest and clattenburg should be charged, sacked et al and the bigger question is why, there is clearly incompetence at best in attwells decisions but the immediate response is to mock forest whereas an actual response would be we understand your concerns we do not think there is any foundation to them with regards to our refs integrity but we have a duty of care to look into them and to try and uphold the best standards of refereeing available and whether you believe in conspiracy or not, it is plain to see that attwell is quite simply not fit for purpose, multiple high profile mistakes in multiple high profile games, not adhering to the laws of the game correctly and yet he still continues to ref and that alone is why pgmol should be looked at it because conspiracy theories or no conspiracy theories these refs are simply incompetent and pgmol is allowing that.
This!This is the crucial point. The tech is not accurate for a decision based on a few millimetres because of the frame speed. So these very marginal decisions can’t be trusted. The way VAR is used must take account of the margin of error.
The media are influencing decisions by officials. Some incidents are scrutinised and others are not. Why are fans not shown how the VAR process works at Stockley Park. We are the paying customers. It is clear that conversations are happening between officials and broadcasters while play is happening. The TV people get an early steer on decisions for starters. That can only happen if something comes out of Stockley Park.Defo agree with what you said about Neville and when he says nothing to see here, the cameraman and sports editor obviously follows his lead and it's ignored. I've seen that countless times watching games and funnily enough it never happens when the red mardarses are playing.
Everyone can see through the bullshit whereas sky sports think that we're all blind.
I have always said that until the audio is available and played there will always be questions as to how decisions are come to and their validity, if there is nothing to hide, there is no reason not to play the audio between the officials, in every sport it is available, in rugby league and union you hear the reasoning, in all american sports calls are explained to the fans but the pl steadfastly refuse to budge and questions have to be asked why this is so.The media are influencing decisions by officials. Some incidents are scrutinised and others are not. Why are fans not shown how the VAR process works at Stockley Park. We are the paying customers. It is clear that conversations are happening between officials and broadcasters while play is happening. The TV people get an early steer on decisions for starters. That can only happen if something comes out of Stockley Park.
Spot-on. No transparency means no trust and secrecy corrupts. We have seen it in every aspect of life in recent years, the latest being the Post Office scandal. What have they got to hide?I have always said that until the audio is available and played there will always be questions as to how decisions are come to and their validity, if there is nothing to hide, there is no reason not to play the audio between the officials, in every sport it is available, in rugby league and union you hear the reasoning, in all american sports calls are explained to the fans but the pl steadfastly refuse to budge and questions have to be asked why this is so.
it just consistently makes it look like they have something to hide or that the decisions are not made in a fair and honest manner and while that suspicion is there and the incompetence remains there will always be questions can you imagine in any other business if officials said right this is the decision, you may not understand and you may not like it but we damn sure aint explaining it to you or telling you how we go there, it just wouldnt happen but we are just supposed to accept that in a multi billion pound industry who we are consistently told is at the cutting edge of tech, finance and the biggest sport in the world yet we as fans are supposed to accept that our teams fortunes can rise and fall at the behest of a single person sat in a room far away from the pitch with zero explanation, its ludicrous.