VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[halfcenturyup]

So the 99% of people who are sensible will understand it, and the 1% will be exactly the same as they would if we had current VAR, no VAR or VAR with a margin?

Sign me up.


"How do we keep the most one-eyed conspiratorial demented people in society happy" isn't any kind of way to go about making rules.

You obviously have more faith in the ability of football fans to be sensible than I do. Which is good, I suppose.

 

[youngbob]

Semi-automated offsides and goal-line technology, yep. Keep them.

VAR, though? Nope. Just get rid. It's not made anything better and it turns out referees are correct just as often in real time as they are with a screen to help them.

Bin it.

 

[stonerblue]

It's strange that video technology works perfectly well in rugby union, rugby league, cricket and tennis but in football it's a total mess. Is this just a reflection of how badly the F.A. and the Premier League are running the game?

No. It's a reflection of how totally different football is to the other sports you mention.

 

[AirbagsOptionalTheReturn]

I voted on the fence, VAR is a great tool, it is being used by incompetent Muppets. Should also not be used for offsides in such a minute level of detail, if a player's toe is offside he should be onside, they should change it to being clear daylight again and then use VAR for that. With that in mind, sort the muppets out and the tool will be fine.

 

[BlueHammer85]

If the trade off between the sheer unadulterated joy of celebrating a goal is a 14% less accurately refereed game then it's a trade off I'm very willing to take.

Can this be a reminder for when a ridiculous dive is awarded as penalty against you, when a ref points to the spot because he spotted a 50/50 tussle, when a clear offside goal is scored against you, when a sickening challenge is not spotted by the officials... it's easy to say in hindsight that you can accept the trade off but the uproar and anger will be off the scale towards the officials when/if VAR is scrapped.

 

[madloaf]

Can this be a reminder for when a ridiculous dive is awarded as penalty against you, when a ref points to the spot because he spotted a 50/50 tussle, when a clear offside goal is scored against you, when a sickening challenge is not spotted by the officials... it's easy to say in hindsight that you can accept the trade off but the uproar and anger will be off the scale towards the officials when/if VAR is scrapped.

Absolutely. All of this happened and never once dampened my love of football prior to 2019. I love football, for all these flaws, for all the previous & future frustrations - but when they add something that stops the only thing that matters in football - the immediate and visceral celebration of a goal - that's when my love could be lessened. And i don't want that and as I said, it's a trade off i'm willing to take.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Can this be a reminder for when a ridiculous dive is awarded as penalty against you, when a ref points to the spot because he spotted a 50/50 tussle, when a clear offside goal is scored against you, when a sickening challenge is not spotted by the officials... it's easy to say in hindsight that you can accept the trade off but the uproar and anger will be off the scale towards the officials when/if VAR is scrapped.

Uproar and anger has always been part of the game. Is now. And always will be. Not sure I ever get that.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Uproar and anger has always been part of the game. Is now. And always will be. Not sure I ever get that.

Sadly true. just depressing thought to go back to watching every game and the main talk is the officials decisions and all the anger that comes with it. I know VAR is throwing out similar but VAR has a chance to progress, to tweak and improve - the old way doesn't.

 

[Asa's left peg]

Said it before - it's the people not the technology. They don't seem too worked up about it on the continent.

I don't believe Webb when he says they sit down after the weekend to feedback. It's just a back slapping process, otherwise the inconsistencies would be addressed. The same mistakes that happen on the field happen with VAR because its the same people doing both jobs. The problem is the people themselves.

I agree with the other point. Large sections of the media will debate correct decisions anyway, and claim a mistake was made - our own classic being Spitty and the rag claiming that Mane jumping and lifting his leg 8 foot off the ground connecting with Eddie's cheek, not being a sending off.

 

[stonerblue]

Can this be a reminder for when a ridiculous dive is awarded as penalty against you, when a ref points to the spot because he spotted a 50/50 tussle, when a clear offside goal is scored against you, when a sickening challenge is not spotted by the officials... it's easy to say in hindsight that you can accept the trade off but the uproar and anger will be off the scale towards the officials when/if VAR is scrapped.

Ah, you mean like the old days.
All of those things you mention happened pre var and were part of the game.
Now we have var they still happen, and this riles more people because we were told that it would stop.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Take it out. Fix it. Bring it back in.

Fixes :
Have auto offsides immediately.
Only the ref on the field to make decisions (He uses all the tools at his disposal or makes the call himself)
No VAR ref flags any decisions ever

Onus is on the ref again but he has tools he can use. This woould mean :

We dont get silly obscure handballs and fouls given by any of the 5 refs in VAR (Each with their own interpretation)
No more amateurish lines drawn on the screen, no human intervention in offsides basically.
No more devolving decision making to someone else - It is the ref.
A goal is a goal, if the ref or linesmen didnt flag anything it is a goal.

Basically we go back to reffing but he has tech to help him.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Said it before - it's the people not the technology. They don't seem too worked up about it on the continent.

I don't believe Webb when he says they sit down after the weekend to feedback. It's just a back slapping process, otherwise the inconsistencies would be addressed. The same mistakes that happen on the field happen with VAR because its the same people doing both jobs. The problem is the people themselves.

I agree with the other point. Large sections of the media will debate correct decisions anyway, and claim a mistake was made - our own classic being Spitty and the rag claiming that Mane jumping and lifting his leg 8 foot off the ground connecting with Eddie's cheek, not being a sending off.

For me its the environment. For me it doesnt matter who you have there, because of the situation, speed, confusion, pressure, most of all subjectivity, no one could do that job with consistency.

 

[bluemoon32]

The biggest issue for me with var is that it's mates marking their mates homework.

 

[BlueHammer85]

It's worth noting VAR come in just at the peak of twitter/social media.
social media has played a big part in causing uproar and anger and making all fans of all clubs believe there is a agenda against them and every bad decision is 'corrupt'

 

[Bluesince1979]

For over the line etc its fine but thats all thats working 100% at the mo.

Offsides seem a bit of guess work currently so until the tech is in to sort that 100% correct always, bin it and let the linesman get it wrong until they can get it right rather than blurry lines.

Fouls are way to subjective and when slowed down can look totally different, sometime worse sometimes better, so let the ref carry on. It was always ok in that respect

The clear and obvious error is by far the biggest scam. It either IS or it ISNT, why hide behind clear n obvious error?

I think wolves calling this out is just a shot across the bows, i dont think 14 clubs will vote to bin it, but by doing this its the clubs saying , “fuckin sort it”.

 

[KentBlue]

The biggest issue for me with var is that it's mates marking their mates homework.

Precisely this. It is never going to work all the while pgmol insist on a cloak and dagger approach regarding technology.
Not once has Howard Webb or any of the others come out and explained why they can't be in the open, like the rugby.
Every interview I have seen with the various members of the Match Mafia, when they are asked to explain the lack of transparency they act like politicians, evading the question: trying to change the subject, all the while wearing that patronising smirk that says 'You wouldn't understand if I tried to explain. Go away.'

This season has been absolutely fucking horrendous for the clubs on the receiving end of (what we'll call) 'errors.' Wolves have had the worst of it, but no club is immune (Ha, yes, that's debatable).

Two things that should happen before the new season begins: keep VAR but let the paying public know exactly why certain decisions were made, make these people behind closed doors accountable for what they decide.
And secondly, make an appointment for both Spitty and Ratty to meet with John ('Saw' films franchise) Kramer in his torture chamber ("Hello. I'd like to play a little game!").

 

[SamBlue]

It would be lunacy to get rid of it, there are cons - mostly not having automatic off-side VAR like in the CL - but there are many more pros. The biggest elephant in the room is 'clear and obvious crap' but it is all down to the personnel and how poor their decision making has been, nothing to do with VAR.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

It's worth noting VAR come in just at the peak of twitter/social media.
social media has played a big part in causing uproar and anger and making all fans of all clubs believe there is a agenda against them and every bad decision is 'corrupt'

Social media didnt start in 2019. And very likely Social Media contributed to us now having VAR after the Thierry Henry handball goal in that qualifier. Social media attacks on the refs was a thing and I think partly they have brought this in to protect the refs, make someone obscure take the call, take the pressure of refs in this social media age.

I say put them back right in the centre of the decision making, pay them more, protect them, just dont let 5 people referee a game. That leads to chaos. And thats what we are seeing isnt it.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Wolves have placed the motion on behalf of their manager.

Imagine the media reaction had Forest or Everton moved it?

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Have people forgotten the absolute bullshit that existed even before VAR? It wasn’t some incredible utopia. Where bent linesman could just flag anything they wanted and that was final?

Where things like this are given as offside?



I do not want to go back to this. We should be working WITH VAR to make it better, to improve it, to improve the experience for match-goers etc, not getting rid of it.