General Election - 4th July 2024

[The Future’s Blue!]

Personally, I am hoping for a hung parliament, a great showing by the Greens, a decent showing by the Lib Dems, and a record-high number of Independents returned.

I don't trust any of them to have a majority government. At least with a hung parliament they will be forced into fruitful debate in order to get things passed, rather than the appearance of debate prior to rubber stamping legislation.

A few are saying that they don’t know what Labour stand for, for the life of me I don’t know what the Dem’s and Green’s policies are?

 

[blue for life]

Tory MPs continuing to stand down. Redwood already today with 5 yesterday!

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

A few are saying that they don’t know what Labour stand for, for the life of me I don’t know what the Dem’s and Green’s policies are?

Well nobody has had a chance to publish a manifesto yet, so you could say the same about the Conservatives.

I will be doing what I do every election which is reading through them all and choosing the one that most aligns with my perspectives and whether I think it’s realistic that that party could deliver on it. Everything else is just PR.

I’ve been trying to flip the question on its head and ask “what do I want in a government?” As in, what could they propose that would win my vote? I think these are the main policies that would really go a long way to persuading me:

1. Proportional representation / voting reform - easy win if somebody goes for it. One of the main reasons I have voted Lib Dem.
2. Complete restructure of the tax code, particularly the structure of income tax. Literally put it in the bin and start again.
3. Building houses - but I don’t want them to just say they’re going to build them, I want them to tell me how they will do it that will make it succeed where the government has massively failed.
4. Public health - increase spending per capita on public health to align it to leading European nations spending (we are currently at about two thirds the spend per person of Germany, for example). Implement sweeping technology reform, a big issue in the NHS is inconsistency and fragmentation in their systems. Every government entity that needs to scale with the population should be constantly investing in improving scalability. There’s honestly a whole re-think needed when it comes to health systems/processes at quite a fundamental level. I don’t know how to solve it, I’m not an expert.
5. Some kind of plan for addressing misinformation in politics, media and particularly social media. Again I’m open to ideas on that because I don’t know how to address it, I just know it’s a big big problem.

 

[hilts]

Usually would be but for Starmer to be a lawyer and take the stance he has on the suffering of millions of innocent, I want him nowhere near as leader for me.

Women kids etc... are surely a price worth paying to say you were once a prime minister. I mean they would die anyhow so why ruin your chances.

I think that's the general stance of him and his supporters, nice people.

 

[Ducado]

Personally, I am hoping for a hung parliament, a great showing by the Greens, a decent showing by the Lib Dems, and a record-high number of Independents returned.

I don't trust any of them to have a majority government. At least with a hung parliament they will be forced into fruitful debate in order to get things passed, rather than the appearance of debate prior to rubber stamping legislation.

The last time it happened it did not turn out so great

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

A few are saying that they don’t know what Labour stand for, for the life of me I don’t know what the Dem’s and Green’s policies are?

The Greens, when you dig deeper, are in to some very whacky stuff.

If they had policy grounded in science they would be a much stronger proposition. I'm a big fan of Caroline Lucas. A very good MP but it's the characters around her in the party that have little credibility.

 

[Ducado]

Well nobody has had a chance to publish a manifesto yet, so you could say the same about the Conservatives.

I will be doing what I do every election which is reading through them all and choosing the one that most aligns with my perspectives and whether I think it’s realistic that that party could deliver on it. Everything else is just PR.

I’ve been trying to flip the question on its head and ask “what do I want in a government?” As in, what could they propose that would win my vote? I think these are the main policies that would really go a long way to persuading me:

1. Proportional representation / voting reform - easy win if somebody goes for it. One of the main reasons I have voted Lib Dem.
2. Complete restructure of the tax code, particularly the structure of income tax. Literally put it in the bin and start again.
3. Building houses - but I don’t want them to just say they’re going to build them, I want them to tell me how they will do it that will make it succeed where the government has massively failed.
4. Public health - increase spending per capita on public health to align it to leading European nations spending (we are currently at about two thirds the spend per person of Germany, for example). Implement sweeping technology reform, a big issue in the NHS is inconsistency and fragmentation in their systems. Every government entity that needs to scale with the population should be constantly investing in improving scalability. There’s honestly a whole re-think needed when it comes to health systems/processes at quite a fundamental level. I don’t know how to solve it, I’m not an expert.
5. Some kind of plan for addressing misinformation in politics, media and particularly social media. Again I’m open to ideas on that because I don’t know how to address it, I just know it’s a big big problem.

Some great points there and I agree with them, apart from Proportional Representation, you only have to look at Israel to see where it goes wrong, can you imagine a right wind Tory government in hock to Reform? Or a left wing government in hock to the far left, and we have enough extremists in this country to make that a distinct possibility.

Saying that some form of electoral reform is needed, we could start with hold elections over a weekend rather than a Thursday, they are only held on a Thursday because traditionally most people were paid on a Thursday, is a historical anachronism that wants putting in the bin

 

[PragueBlue]

Personally, I am hoping for a hung parliament, a great showing by the Greens, a decent showing by the Lib Dems, and a record-high number of Independents returned.

I don't trust any of them to have a majority government. At least with a hung parliament they will be forced into fruitful debate in order to get things passed, rather than the appearance of debate prior to rubber stamping legislation.

Same here.

 

[BeerIsTheBest]

Internet Independent article this am covering Tory MPs reaction to Sunaks election call… sums everything up for me. 14 years of guzzling from the trough, country falling apart, endless broken promises and wasted public money, desperate folk trying to survive. Spare a thought for your elected representatives please. Change for a cup of tea guv?

But the really furious MPs were the ones who will have to give up their sun loungers for tramping around wet streets delivering leaflets.


One senior backbencher said: "This is utter madness. The Tory party is not ready, MPs are not ready. We need a break. This was the last chance for many to have a proper holiday………."

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

I am NOT watching the build up to this, the media are going to make it a shitshow of biases and bollocks.

The tories have fucked the country up so much that we WILL vote them out. Thats the top and tail of it. The RW media cannot change things. The left wing media dont need to change things.

6 weeks of this bollocks when all we want to do is vote them out.

 

[bluejon]

I am NOT watching the build up to this, the media are going to make it a shitshow of biases and bollocks.

The tories have fucked the country up so much that we WILL vote them out. Thats the top and tail of it. The RW media cannot change things. The left wing media dont need to change things.

6 weeks of this bollocks when all we want to do is vote them out.

I can't imagine there's too many people who'll be changing their minds over the course of the next few weeks either. Politics has always been tribal but since the twitterfication of it all, the discourse now is utter bullshit. I'd be quite happy if he'd called it for next week, would have saved a lot of twatting about and i bet the result would be the same.

 

[Damocles]

Some great points there and I agree with them, apart from Proportional Representation, you only have to look at Israel to see where it goes wrong, can you imagine a right wind Tory government in hock to Reform? Or a left wing government in hock to the far left, and we have enough extremists in this country to make that a distinct possibility.

People should be allowed to vote for whoever they want in a meaningful choice. If that means less than stellar governments then that's what we get. We get the Government that we deserve, every time, for better or worse.

The idea that we should protect democracy by restricting the diversity of political opinion that matters (i.e. are electable) into a sliver of the full range is wrong. You can't protect democracy by restricting it, its arrogant and elitist.

The only caveat to this would be in countries where the electoral system is corrupt due to ballot stuffing or enforced voting or whatever. Obviously that's different, but the UK has no issues with voter fraud or election fraud so its not a problem here.

Give the people exactly what they want and then the system would have done its job. I don't and have never believed that too much democracy results in the lessening of democracy. That's a view generally espoused by those inside the status quo. Why can't we have a serious parties on the far left and right? These are views held within the populace.

I've always considered this a form of cowardice and arrogance. Similar to when people were hawking that the BBC shouldn't let Nick Griffin on Question Time. And they did. And the BNP collapsed. Because nothing hurts these parties more than actually having to debate policy with people who know what they're talking about and are willing to question them.

I'll debate all day long with fascists and communists because I think their ideas are flawed and rooted in poor policy. They are not workable systems. Why people think they need to be hidden away like a dirty secret escapes me. Either people believe that their arguments are not strong enough to overcome them, or they believe that the British people are idiots who cannot recognise good from bad.

I don't have an inbuilt hatred of the people in this country. I think we're generally well educated and generally switched on politically comparatively and people can generally see what a party stands for. I think they can and should be trusted to vote for whoever they want and if we vote in a bad Government then that's on us.

PR is the only way forward for electoral reform. For a country that espouses to the world about how diversity is hugely important to us and has made our country better through new ideas and culture, we then cut a 1% slice of the political spectrum and tell people these are the grounds each party will fight upon. It's hypocritical.

I loved Jeremy Corbyn as a politician, we hold lots of similar views and his early PMQs appearances that he was roundly mocked for, I thought were brilliant. But I hated him as Labour leader because his politics, while admirable, had 0% chance of ever winning a General Election and you can't implement policy if you can't get it through Parliament. We all have to have a cold dose of realism and at that point, I felt Labour was more trying to be philosophers than politicians. Great in the speech circuit, bad in the election. And without power to implement policy, you're basically "an influencer". You know, like Instagram models. Winning is the most important thing for a political party even if its distasteful to admit.

This is not a favourable solution at all. Starmer will win the election and he will pass policy that is to the left of the current Tory policy. But it will be a step to the left and not a jump because its starting to take a generation now for things to change, mainly because the economy tanks when people make huge leaps as the last PM showed. In the last 25 years or so, we've had domination of one party then domination of the other. So it's not like we're a highly efficient political system to begin with, we're tiptoeing between two vaguely similar positions on a 12 year cycle while being petrified of the City.

So I suppose to summarise, I'd say that democracy should be as open and diverse as possible, FPTP has led to tactical voting and voting against interests because they're not winnable, and it has made the country change resistant and created generational reigns for each political party. PR has disadvantages but they're mainly philosophical and based in the idea that people are stupid and will vote for stupid. I'd argue they're not but I'd also argue that if they are and that's what the majority votes for then that's what we should do anyway because that's democracy

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Some great points there and I agree with them, apart from Proportional Representation, you only have to look at Israel to see where it goes wrong, can you imagine a right wind Tory government in hock to Reform? Or a left wing government in hock to the far left, and we have enough extremists in this country to make that a distinct possibility.

Have you seen the fucking state this country’s in with the utterly wank voting system we have to endure and the equally wank government it’s given us for the last five years?

 

[Blue Maverick]

Only issue I have is my vote means sod all, Labour will always win here (not that I’d vote differently at the moment) proportional representation would seem better. I think it’s like the USA system where basically very few voters will decide the election in the swing states. Which seem to lurch from 12-15 years if one then the next come in try to repair their mess rinse and repeat, whilst all lining their own pockets.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I am NOT watching the build up to this, the media are going to make it a shitshow of biases and bollocks.

The tories have fucked the country up so much that we WILL vote them out. Thats the top and tail of it. The RW media cannot change things. The left wing media dont need to change things.

6 weeks of this bollocks when all we want to do is vote them out.

Agree with this. I don't sense any desire to listen to the arguments. We know the tories are a shit show and they deserve to lose over 200 mps. Can't wait to see it.

Labour are taking over the shit show and therefore I can't blame them for the lack of ambition and dry offer. The reality is whoever is in charge tax has to remain high and there is zero spending capacity to do anything material.

Brexit is the elephant in the room and I thought it would be an issue at this election. Its pretty sad its not, but the Labour membership and vote is overwhelmingly pro EU so I guess we just have to hope that over time the leadership have to move in that direction.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Important notice

If Sunak could somehow stop ALL the boats from today for the next 6 weeks you will be no better off.

 

[bluethrunthru]

To win an election you need to have candidates

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Some great points there and I agree with them, apart from Proportional Representation, you only have to look at Israel to see where it goes wrong, can you imagine a right wind Tory government in hock to Reform? Or a left wing government in hock to the far left, and we have enough extremists in this country to make that a distinct possibility.

Saying that some form of electoral reform is needed, we could start with hold elections over a weekend rather than a Thursday, they are only held on a Thursday because traditionally most people were paid on a Thursday, is a historical anachronism that wants putting in the bin

It’s a matter of perspective I suppose but I think you could argue that flaw is already present in our current FPTP system. The Rwanda policy only really exists to appease people who are at risk of flipping to Reform. The Tories basically already are in hock to Reform in some ways.

I could also point to counter examples in PR systems. Like in the Netherlands, where Wilders has been forced to work cross-party and make concessions, including conceding the position of Prime Minister. So in this instance the party furthest right who won a plurality is being forced to cooperate to get anywhere. I think when strong action is needed this isn’t always the best system, but it’s probably the best of the available options.

But this is all a bit nebulous and speculative anyway because PR is not just one system of voting, it’s a family of options, and which option is the best is up for some debate. The fundamental principle I think we want to embed somehow is that every vote matters, even if you’re in a safe seat. At the moment elections are decided by a sliver of the population that live in marginals, and that leads to depressed turnout and voter apathy and I think this is probably the most harmful thing about our current system that needs addressing. I don’t mind Reform getting 50 seats in parliament if it means that every vote matters.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Personally, I am hoping for a hung parliament, a great showing by the Greens, a decent showing by the Lib Dems, and a record-high number of Independents returned.

I don't trust any of them to have a majority government. At least with a hung parliament they will be forced into fruitful debate in order to get things passed, rather than the appearance of debate prior to rubber stamping legislation.

Streeting and Starmer losing their seats would be funny too.

I'm not sure what the rules are if the majority party leader lose their seat. I'd assume Ange would be nominated PM until they voted for a new leader.

 

[Lowtower]

Streeting and Starmer losing their seats would be funny too.

I'm not sure what the rules are if the majority party leader lose their seat. I'd assume Ange would be nominated PM until they voted for a new leader.

Think the rules are you piss yourself laughing.