General Election - 4th July 2024

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Unquestionably, but the art of cross examination doesn’t require a highly developed ability to think on your feet - although it unquestionably helps.

Not really against the clock, as such though, I wouldn’t imagine?
He should have had a coughing fit and asked for an adjournment until today
;-)

 

[M18CTID]

Two points

1/ Johnson wasn't rolled over by the EU. Johnson was rolled over by himself. He promised something that was a fantasy he engineered to fit the desires of his cult which required 27 other countries to bow to his will. Unlikely as he didn't even have all of his own country onside
2/ Illegal migration is entirely a problem of their own making - not only in the obvious way but they made everyone who came here an illegal in their act of 2023. The idea that you decide not to deal with refugee's properly then when its out of control you decide the best thing to do is to declare them all illegal is somehow a fix is deranged madness. The idea they have granted so many visa's last year is a clear ( yet denied) example of how our economy needs immigration just to bump along the bottom never mind grow

Thanks. That doesn't alter my view that this current incarnation of the Conservative party are a total shower as I'm sure you'll agree!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Not really against the clock, as such though, I wouldn’t imagine?

Not as such, no - especially if you are a silk!

 

[metalblue]

I don't think it is. I assume it's because the UK signed a deal with Bangladesh last month on returning failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants quickly. The argument was that the Tories aren't in a position to use that.

Labour have been consistently saying for years that the best way to deal with asylum cases is to process them quickly, so that the people making the claims can either get on with their lives in the UK, or return to their home country.

I’m not a particular fan of our current approach but given it’s unlikely to change it make sense to get initial decision quicker so adding more resources to that part with help - it certainly a more positive message than Sunak is offering. However my main concern is with the appeals process also needing to be resourced else you just end up kicking the blockage further down the road. I think 75% of all initial denied claims are appealed.

I don’t know how the initial decision is categorised today but something like:

Approved
Denied with right of appeal
Denied

Would make sense. Those denied, likely those with a significant criminal record or previously attempted to gain asylum, are then removed. The denied with right of appeal would cover those who haven’t proven their claim, such as they would suffer persecution but could potentially do so.

Claimants can currently work after 12 months even if claim not processed in certain professions. If we can process that initial decision within 12 months then letting them work whilst appeals are heard in any job would be better all round as well.

 

[bluenova]

Unquestionably, but the art of cross examination doesn’t require a highly developed ability to think on your feet - although it unquestionably helps.

To be fair to Starmer, what Sunak was doing wasn't thinking on his feet either. He was repeating rehearsed lines, often with little relevance to the context.

I was surprised Sunak was given free reign to simply talk across most of Starmer's answers. He obviously wouldn't be allowed in court, and even at PMQs, which can appear a free for all, the speaker would cut it out quickly.

It's what Trump does, and clearly the Tories have seen it works, but in the US their next debate is going to have mics cut off as soon as it's not their turn to speak. I'd assume a stern word would have worked with Sunak.

 

[metalblue]

I didn't say empathy was the most important thing in making decisions.

I was replying to a post which asked about wealthy and successful people being "in touch" with the rest of the country.

There are clearly plenty of things a good PM needs apart from empathy. I'm suggesting that a PM who isn't empathetic; who doesn't actually understand the impact of their role; is unlikely to be a good PM.

I don't think it's too much to expect a PM to also have other skills on top :)

Probably one of the hardest things a PM has to do is put empathy to one side when making all sorts of decisions day in day out. Of course some decisions are bigger than others - Chamberlain floundered with the idea of war, Churchill had no such issue but it didn’t mean he didn’t care about those he was sending to die. Running the country is a numbers game and we (the general public) are just numbers. I couldn’t do it for sure, I doubt many of us could so it does take a certain type of person to be a PM, once in a while we get lucky and they are successful.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Excuse me for butting in, but being a landlord or multiple rented properties doesn't really have an affect on general property inflation imo, unless you buy multiple properties to keep them empty which clearly isnt the case in the vast majority of instances.

If there were more houses than people wanting them then property prices wouldn't inflate. Surely its just simply supply and demand economics?

No it isn't.

Worsley admitted he couldn't argue against this point.

Redirect Notice

 

[metalblue]

BOE inflation calculator reckons the fees today would be £24,456.51, so the VAT is, in reality, largely irrelevant.

CPI vs RPI. RPI includes cost of living rather than just the basket of goods/services so I always treat it as a more reliable indicator of true inflation IMHO - governments use CPI because it’s cheaper for them. They need real inflation to be higher than interest rates to erode debt.

 

[metalblue]

Not really against the clock, as such though, I wouldn’t imagine?
He should have had a coughing fit and asked for an adjournment until today
;-)

Then Ange could have told him what to say ;)

 

[bluenova]

Probably one of the hardest things a PM has to do is put empathy to one side when making all sorts of decisions day in day out. Of course some decisions are bigger than others - Chamberlain floundered with the idea of war, Churchill had no such issue but it didn’t mean he didn’t care about those he was sending to die. Running the country is a numbers game and we (the general public) are just numbers. I couldn’t do it for sure, I doubt many of us could so it does take a certain type of person to be a PM, once in a while we get lucky and they are successful.

Understanding the impact of your policies, but deciding that you have to upset some people for the greater good, still fundamentally involves empathy.

My first post was really about whether Sunak was out of touch, and if all well off people would be. I think if you want to PM, you should know the people you want to lead. I don't believe that having an understanding of people's day to day lives, can be bad for decision making. (If you do know what's involved in the every day lives of people who are homeless, refugees, disabled, etc., and don't feel empathy, you're probably a sociopath, and I suspect not an ideal PM).

 

[mosssideblue]

No doubt there are mitigating circumstances for Covid but don't try and pretend that this country wasn't well on its way to getting fucked before Covid became a thing. And that's all down to the Tories and no fucker else.

Record taxes
Record net migration
Record illegal immigration
Highest inflation rates since the late 70s
Brexit and Johnson's shitty oven ready deal which isn't worth a fucking wank because he allowed himself to be rolled over by the EU
Liz Truss and Kamikaze Kwarteng's suicidal budget which cost the country tens of billions of pounds and saw mortgage rates rocket

They're just a few things and most of them are fuck-all to do with Covid. And that's before we get on to scandal after scandal after fucking scandal. Yet here you are still voting for the fuckers. You need to give your head a fucking wobble sunshine

Double like. Great post

 

[Vic]

Excuse me for butting in, but being a landlord or multiple rented properties doesn't really have an affect on general property inflation imo, unless you buy multiple properties to keep them empty which clearly isnt the case in the vast majority of instances.

If there were more houses than people wanting them then property prices wouldn't inflate. Surely its just simply supply and demand economics?

Good grief. Someone bidding to buy a house to let it out is obviously pushing up the price for someone who wants to buy it to live in.

 

[metalblue]

Understanding the impact of your policies, but deciding that you have to upset some people for the greater good, still fundamentally involves empathy.

My first post was really about whether Sunak was out of touch, and if all well off people would be. I think if you want to PM, you should know the people you want to lead. I don't believe that having an understanding of people's day to day lives, can be bad for decision making. (If you do know what's involved in the every day lives of people who are homeless, refugees, disabled, etc., and don't feel empathy, you're probably a sociopath, and I suspect not an ideal PM).

The trait you are describing is surely sympathy rather than empathy? That I would wholeheartedly agree with.

If Aristotle was a modern philosopher he would probably conclude “politics is reason, free from passion”.

 

[Vic]

No it isn't.

Worsley admitted he couldn't argue against this point.

Redirect Notice

There will be far fewer landlord MPs after the election.

 

[chris85mcfc]

Excuse me for butting in, but being a landlord or multiple rented properties doesn't really have an affect on general property inflation imo, unless you buy multiple properties to keep them empty which clearly isnt the case in the vast majority of instances.

If there were more houses than people wanting them then property prices wouldn't inflate. Surely its just simply supply and demand economics?

Yeah, the simple supply and demand in play here, is that there is a reduction in supply (availability), and an increase (or at least a plateau) in demand.

When demand outweighs supply, the value (or worth to the buyer) increases, and obviously it decreases when the shoes on the other foot.

 

[bluenova]

The trait you are describing is surely sympathy rather than empathy? That I would wholeheartedly agree with.

If Aristotle was a modern philosopher he would probably conclude “politics is reason, free from passion”.

No - I'd say empathy.

I'm not just talking about someone who feels pity for someone else's plight, I'm talking about someone who can appreciate the emotions they're going through, and relate them in some way to their own feelings. It doesn't mean feeling the same way as them, so Aristotle is safe. The meaning of both has changed over time, and there's a lot of crossover, but in this context, I've always been taught empathy.

Either way, if we do go back to the original post, I think Sunak could easily be more "in touch", but looking at his life, I can understand why he isn't. When he was in the US, deciding that he wanted to become an MP, his next step was to contact a consultancy that helps find safe seats for Tory MPs with contacts and money. He could easily have afforded a sabbatical year, finding out more about the people he wanted to lead, and I suspect it would have made him a much better PM.

 

[Tb1981]

This election has me about as excited as England at the Euros
The choice is pretty grim. Cant say Sunak or Starmer come across very well.
Labour should be in for as long as they want this time, given the complete dross that has proceeded them (Sunak, Truss, Johnson, May).
We all know its time for a big change, but not sure the change were going to get is the one we want.
I really think this country needs a Tony Blair type figure but they just aren't out there at the moment.
Id love someone with passion and a plan to come along and show us a vision for the future.

 

[kaz7]

I watched ten mins last night , as with the other debates sunak was favoured and could scream and shout as much as he wanted to. I dont think it would get truely floating voters interested in either side at this stage . Quite honestly if you can excuse foruteen years , largely austerity , lying and filling their own pockets and taking the piss out of all of us then you are stupid

 

[Bodicoteblue]

No doubt there are mitigating circumstances for Covid but don't try and pretend that this country wasn't well on its way to getting fucked before Covid became a thing. And that's all down to the Tories and no fucker else.

Record taxes
Record net migration
Record illegal immigration
Highest inflation rates since the late 70s
Brexit and Johnson's shitty oven ready deal which isn't worth a fucking wank because he allowed himself to be rolled over by the EU
Liz Truss and Kamikaze Kwarteng's suicidal budget which cost the country tens of billions of pounds and saw mortgage rates rocket

They're just a few things and most of them are fuck-all to do with Covid. And that's before we get on to scandal after scandal after fucking scandal. Yet here you are still voting for the fuckers. You need to give your head a fucking wobble sunshine

Isn’t it odd that covid is quoted as the scapegoat for economic hardship, yet the same people stubbornly refuse to mention the elephant in the room that is brexit which will - according to the OBR- do twice as much damage!

 

[BobKowalski]

This election has me about as excited as England at the Euros
The choice is pretty grim. Cant say Sunak or Starmer come across very well.
Labour should be in for as long as they want this time, given the complete dross that has proceeded them (Sunak, Truss, Johnson, May).
We all know its time for a big change, but not sure the change were going to get is the one we want.
I really think this country needs a Tony Blair type figure but they just aren't out there at the moment.
Id love someone with passion and a plan to come along and show us a vision for the future.

I’ll settle for competence. Investing in ‘personalities’ is what got us in this mess.