Banning smoking in beer gardens

Churchlawtonblue said:
Lets put aside your claim that they thrived, just show me the data that indicates the smoking ban didnt increase pub closures?
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The same data that attributes pub closures to a whole range of other factors. You are being obtuse.

There is also data that shows pubs (those that didn't close) increasing profits, year on year (until covid at least) after the smoking ban. That's thriving. That's not to say the ban itself caused it, any more than the introduction of craft beer and vegan saussage to their menus.

But your overall arguement is it will kill pubs, and mine is it won't, and those that embrace it will be successful.
 
Coatigan said:
The same data that attributes pub closures to a whole range of other factors. You are being obtuse.

There is also data that shows pubs (those that didn't close) increasing profits, year on year (until covid at least) after the smoking ban. That's thriving. That's not to say the ban itself caused it, any more than the introduction of craft beer and vegan saussage to their menus.

But your overall arguement is it will kill pubs, and mine is it won't, and those that embrace it will be successful.
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So the pubs that managed to stay open made more money than they did than when there were more pubs open around them?
 
Coatigan said:
The same data that attributes pub closures to a whole range of other factors. You are being obtuse.

There is also data that shows pubs (those that didn't close) increasing profits, year on year (until covid at least) after the smoking ban. That's thriving. That's not to say the ban itself caused it, any more than the introduction of craft beer and vegan saussage to their menus.

But your overall arguement is it will kill pubs, and mine is it won't, and those that embrace it will be successful.
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No im not, you appear happy to reference data when you can find it ? I guess that data just isn't there.

The truth is you dont like smoking, fair enough, but you have made up stuff all through this thread and now you have simply been asked to justify a claim, you can't.
 
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Coatigan said:
The same data that attributes pub closures to a whole range of other factors. You are being obtuse.

There is also data that shows pubs (those that didn't close) increasing profits, year on year (until covid at least) after the smoking ban. That's thriving. That's not to say the ban itself caused it, any more than the introduction of craft beer and vegan saussage to their menus.

But your overall arguement is it will kill pubs, and mine is it won't, and those that embrace it will be successful.
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It was the vegan sausage as everybody knows.
 
ballbag said:
So the pubs that managed to stay open made more money than they did than when there were more pubs open around them?
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Yea. All 98.2% of them! That didn't shut following the smoking ban.

1.8% of additional uk pubs closed following the smoking ban. That's what those thousands of pubs equates to. 1.8%.

And there is no evidence at all, that says that is specifically down to the smoking ban. There is evidence that pubs closed, sure, but none that says it is exclusively down to that, that is pure conjecture. Along with tax increases, price of beer rising, landlords increasing rent, they all contributed and you have to be pretty dishonest, to attribute that percentage increase purely down to the smoking ban.
 
Coatigan said:
Yea. All 98.2% of them! That didn't shut following the smoking ban.

1.8% of additional uk pubs closed following the smoking ban. That's what those thousands of pubs equates to. 1.8%.

And there is no evidence at all, that says that is specifically down to the smoking ban. There is evidence that pubs closed, sure, but none that says it is exclusively down to that, that is pure conjecture. Along with tax increases, price of beer rising, landlords increasing rent, they all contributed and you have to be pretty dishonest, to attribute that percentage increase purely down to the smoking ban.
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Ah right. So the smoking ban was definitely the reason some pubs thrived, but definitely not why some closed.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Is your copper mate high up or a constable?
Because if he isn't high up how is it relevant?

Under 13% of people smoke. It's a declining market. Pubs getting rid of people smoking will be good for businesses in the long run.
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If you genuinely think the police will enforce so be it, regards your second paragraph everyone is entitled to opinion but the 2 landlords I know don't agree with you
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
No im not, you appear happy to reference data when you can find it ? I guess that data just isn't there.

The truth is you dont like smoking, fair enough, but you have made up stuff all through this thread and now you have simply been have been asked to justify a claim, you can't.
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I am referencing the data you yourself and stonerblue posted ffs. You have tried to use percentage of closures as 'proof' that it is the smoking ban, when both those articles list other factors contributing to pub closures.

Tell you what, you show me the evidence that pub closures are down to the smoking ban. Excluding everything else. Not just that pubs closed, not that the made losses (because they had to pay more taxes, rent and spend more on goods), but that puple having to step outside to smoke caused them to close. And I will happily concede.
 
ballbag said:
Ah right. So the smoking ban was definitely the reason some pubs thrived, but definitely not why some closed.
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I have been clear with this many times, I never said that was the reason they thrived. I said they thrived despite of it, not because of it. Read it back! See the bit about the vegan saussage ffs. Churchtown twisted that and stayed hung up on it even after I pointed that out. Against all the doommongering and warnings, pubs continued to thrive, after the smoking ban.
 
Jack74 said:
If you genuinely think the police will enforce so be it, regards your second paragraph everyone is entitled to opinion but the 2 landlords I know don't agree with you
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Do the police routinely wander around enforcing the indoor ban at the moment?
 
ballbag said:
Ah right. So the smoking ban was definitely the reason some pubs thrived, but definitely not why some closed.
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And yes, that is entirely possible.

Not what I was arguing, mind you.
 
Kippax Street 1880 said:
My favourite part of this thread is the people who have never smoked in their lives telling us with 100% certainty vapes will end up being worse than cigarettes. Especially loved the anecdote about someone's mate who was a long term smoker then developed COPD after a few months on the vapes. Of course the 40 years of smoking had nothing to do with it.

Nicotine is addictive as fuck, I smoked from 14 until 28 and only stopped with the help of vapes.

Maybe they will cause super bollock cancer down the line, but I've stopped coughing up black shit every morning, don't have a blocked nose and sore throat all the time, my athletic performance has improved markedly and my clothes and breath smell miles better.

Don't drink so don't really go in pubs anymore but I think people have a right to a beer and a fucking cig if that's what they want to do.

Double the tax on fat bastards and people who spend all day sat at a computer doing jack shit aswell, they put just as much of a strain on the NHS.
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You're lucky though this fruit smell allergy that has soared like a pandemic amongst non smokers and non vapers obviously doesn't affect you.

#helpitsmellsjustlikejelly
 
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