The Labour Government

It doesn’t matter how many people who haven’t worked a day in their life it is, that they will is the issue.

Explain to me how that is fair my any metric.

I didn't say it was fair. I was pointing out that the tiny percentage of the population who have "never worked" getting something like 1% more money than a single person on the full pension, is not the "worst" part.

It's an anomaly that is always going to happen on the edge of any benefit.

The "worst" part is clearly the fact that quite a lot of people who rely only on the state pension are also struggling, and now won't get the WFA.

If someone said, let's change the "worst" part of this policy. Would you allow those millions of pensioners on just the state pension to get the WFA, or would you simply take it away from a few thousand people at most who have never worked?
 
they had no choice but to pay fairly the doctors and trains, both absolutely vital to the economy and well being of our nation.
they could have ignored negotiations and delayed rises and allow strikes like the Tories have done for years - which in turn massively increases the debt.
I agree entirely. But then don’t blame the previous government for the costs involved. Be honest with people. The winter fuel payment sleight of hand trick should have been in the manifesto. Plain and simple. It wasn’t even mentioned. That’s deceitful.
 
The key is not what the likes of I do or not generate, but how those 884k vacancies can be filled from the 1.44m. Either the location of the vacancies and unemployed don't match, or more likely the vacancies are for roles that many of us would not want to be carrying out for whatever reason. I don't profess to know what the answer is.
So somebody's else's problem then, even though the government points out that people retiring early is a big part of the problem as these are typically the higher skilled individuals who generate more wealth for the UK.

As regards spending its no different an argument to someone worth a few tens of millions spending money by buying bottles of Dom Perignon RD from the local wine merchants, employing a local gardener to do their topiary and booking their luxury holidays through the local travel agents.

In reality you dont need to spend it in the economy now, in fact you saving it is like a nice long term investment for the government, ensuring that you will have enough money to pay for your care and what's left they will be able to strip the bones to take as inheritance tax or the pension provider will pocket and return as a healthy profit which in turn will be subject to tax.

I am of course saying this all in jest and apologies for picking on you.

No single group is the answer or all the problem. Yet some would have you believe that there is very much an us and them argument to be had where one group should pick up the tab and the rest remain untouched.

With getting people into employment, its maybe less about the jobs being ones that nobody wants to do and more about the salary on offer for doing it, this being particularly the case with care providers who whilst making very healthy profits pay their staff derisory wages.

As you pointed out the other issue is training, historically the public sector had a conveyor belt of people who were trained to a very high standard, back in the days of public owned utilities and railways, their training was second to none. What this did, was create a highly skilled workforce. Whilst the tax payer might have been footing the bill, when they left to work in the private sector, as many inevitably did, those skills and knowledge drove profitability for private businesses which is what you need if you want to fix the GDP conundrum. Maybe thinking long term with skills strategies rather than the continual roundabout of 5yr political cycles might just set us on a better path.
 
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Unions getting at Starmer over winter fuel payments.

Perhaps he should have been honest and included it in the party manifesto?

If he had, and still got elected, he would now have a mandate.

All political parties are the same, economical with the truth.
The surprise isn’t that Labour are doing what they’re doing; although few would have expected them to do anything as idiotic as scrapping the winter fuel allowance.

The surprise is that Labour were allowed to get away with a manifesto and a narrative during the election campaign which were clearly works of fiction. The non-dom tax and VAT on school fees were going to pay for it all, all the while being committed to balancing the current budget and dishing out bumper pay rises to keep the unions happy. Pure fantasy.

I suspect that over the next year or two, even the biggest stooges on here will admit how dishonest it all was. Though not for a while yet, of course.

Meanwhile Starmer really is in trouble with this fuel calamity and the unions have put him into a very difficult corner now.
 
I didn't say it was fair. I was pointing out that the tiny percentage of the population who have "never worked" getting something like 1% more money than a single person on the full pension, is not the "worst" part.

It's an anomaly that is always going to happen on the edge of any benefit.

The "worst" part is clearly the fact that quite a lot of people who rely only on the state pension are also struggling, and now won't get the WFA.

If someone said, let's change the "worst" part of this policy. Would you allow those millions of pensioners on just the state pension to get the WFA, or would you simply take it away from a few thousand people at most who have never worked?

It’s irrelevant how many people it is. The worst of this policy is that there are people who haven’t worked a day in their life getting more money than someone who has paid in the full amount. Glad you see them as an anomaly - are you a politician by chance because you don’t half waffle and skirt round issues on your responses.

The policy itself is not wrong, some pensioners don’t need it - no argument there, it’s just where they have set it is so plainly wrong.
 
It’s irrelevant how many people it is. The worst of this policy is that there are people who haven’t worked a day in their life getting more money than someone who has paid in the full amount. Glad you see them as an anomaly - are you a politician by chance because you don’t half waffle and skirt round issues on your responses.

The policy itself is not wrong, some pensioners don’t need it - no argument there, it’s just where they have set it is so plainly wrong.

There are always going to be anomalies like this around the edge of benefits.

It's truly bizarre that you care about the principle more than the people.

Ironically I'd say that was a classic politicians trick ;)
 
Afer the Party Political broadcast of Starmer wandering through the Lake District with his bestest mate Gary Neville, talking utter bullshit between themselves, I am surprised that any City fan could have voted for him.
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

The broadcast obviously did better than the Tory equivalent of “Yeah but Labour…”
 
It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

The broadcast obviously did better than the Tory equivalent of “Yeah but Labour…”
No broadcast, manifesto, TV debate or any other propaganda was going to change the outcome of the General Election.

People had had Covid, Energy Bills, rising prices etc etc thrown at them for years and that always leads to the incumbent party getting punished by the great British public.

In 5 years time it will be Labours turn to get a kicking.
 
No broadcast, manifesto, TV debate or any other propaganda was going to change the outcome of the General Election.

People had had Covid, Energy Bills, rising prices etc etc thrown at them for years and that always leads to the incumbent party getting punished by the great British public.

In 5 years time it will be Labours turn to get a kicking.
Ok, so what you wrote about their broadcast was irrelevant then.

In 5 years time, I’ll judge to see where we are and vote accordingly.

(Unless the Tories wheel out Gary Neville. Then I won’t know what to do…)
 
they had no choice but to pay fairly the doctors and trains, both absolutely vital to the economy and well being of our nation.
they could have ignored negotiations and delayed rises and allow strikes like the Tories have done for years - which in turn massively increases the debt.
Train Drivers are not that skilled, £45k would be fair, my mates SIL was on £65k before the pay rise, it's not a difficult job and the training was 6 months, absolute fucking joke.
 
Train Drivers are not that skilled, £45k would be fair, my mates SIL was on £65k before the pay rise, it's not a difficult job and the training was 6 months, absolute fucking joke.
You sound like one of our driver managers who isn't a qualified driver and thinks they know what the job entails.
 
You sound like one of our driver managers who isn't a qualified driver and thinks they know what the job entails.
I'll admit I don't know much about it but I wouldn't think it's too much different skill wise to driving a bus or HGV, free on the job training as well and 6 months doesn't sound complicated. I'm open to being educated about the complexities but I know/have known a couple of train drivers, the one currently qualified is a decent lad, reasonably intelligent but the one who was previously a driver was a bit of a thick piss head.
 
they had no choice but to pay fairly the doctors and trains, both absolutely vital to the economy and well being of our nation.
they could have ignored negotiations and delayed rises and allow strikes like the Tories have done for years - which in turn massively increases the debt.
It's easy to argue though that the optics aren't exactly great.

Doctors and train drivers deserve a payrise but their salaries are above average and usually lie in the top 20% earners. Some doctors are easily earning six figures.

Do pensioners need help with their winter fuel allowance? Around 1/5 to 1/4 of pensioners are asset millionaires so arguably it should at least be means tested.

Meanwhile neither of these points affect the majority of people in the country and everything else such as health, education etc will likely stay shite for the forseeable future.
 
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In the Labour manifesto not a whisper of the WFP cut, it was a soft/easy target by the chancellor taking away the WFP. In the run up to the election It was all about Non doms

The number of people who claimed non-dom status in the UK has risen slightly since the Covid pandemic.
Some 74,000 people claimed non-dom status in 2022-23, up from 68,900 in 2021-22, HM Revenue & Customs data showed.
============================
The new Labour government has pledged to scrap the non-dom tax status to raise more money for the NHS and other public services and tax fraud, nothing yet about how they hope to achieve the billions of pounds tax fraud I expected to hear more about an increase in tax inspectors and fraud officers

Why they didn’t announce the WFP would be phased out slowly by the increase in a state pension much easier to accept by the left wing of government giving pensioners time to adjust, there was nothing about bringing down the price of gas and electricity that everyone pays less.
The trade union congress enjoying the passing of the Tory party members that lost their seats :) how they will work with government on restoring public services, that’s good to hear.
 

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