The Title Race - 2024/25

[Roachy]

Must got those games hand picked for Liverpool be manager to settle in

You couldn't actually rule that out.

 

[Saddleworth2]

So I posted this before the Newcastle game. I knew we'd drop points v Newcastle but I said we then need 6 wins before Liverpool (A).

I stand by that because I think we're going to struggle in the big games this season due to player availability. However, we can still win it if we win all of the games we're expected too. Do I think we'll do that? Probably not based on what we've seen so far this season, we're giving up too many chances.

If we win the next 5, that should make up for the guaranteed loss at Liverpool.

Next league games:
20th Oct - Wolves (A)
26th Oct - Southampton (H)
2nd Nov - Bournemouth (A)
9th Nov - Brighton (A)
23rd Nov - Spurs (H)
1st Dec - Liverpool (A)

These clubs will have been watching us vs Brentford and Fulham closely. Bournemouth away will not be an easy game.
Brighton might have had their season sparked in to life based on yesterday. Spuds will also be a real challenge based on how we are playing at present. Maybe Kev will change things when he gets back.

 

[alexmcity]

Decent points but no way i’d take our midfield trio over the 100 points team. We had prime KDB, a sublime Silva and an unbelievable Fernandinho. The best 3 the league has ever seen in my opinion.

The league was unprepared for Pep's ball in 17/18 and we were absolutely hungry, given we failed in the previous season.

Competing for and winning the Treble is a superior achievement, all the more part of it was our 3rd league title in a row. We were close last season, too, we forced Real to play like a small team in order to survive. Imo, that midfield (22-24) was superior to 17-19. For starters, Rodri is a better holding midfielder than Ferna. David was much better than Foden at playmaking but Foden is much more prolific....

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

We've won at anfield what, twice in 45 years? If there is one place we shit the bed at more than others, its there. We've had some decent performances there over the last 7/8 years, but we still usually manage to find a way to fuck it up there.

Your argument doesn't hold. For a very good proportion of the last 45 years, we ourselves were shit. And shit in a lot of places. Try Wycombe, for instance.
To make current predictions it's wise to look at recent history, i.e. of the last seven or eight years. Nothing in the record of that period suggests any incoming guaranteed loss.

 

[MCFC1993]

Your argument doesn't hold. For a very good proportion of the last 45 years, we ourselves were shit. And shit in a lot of places. Try Wycombe, for instance.
To make current predictions it's wise to look at recent history, i.e. of the last seven or eight years. Nothing in the record of that period suggests any incoming guaranteed loss.

We've had stronger teams in recent seasons and shit the bed there. Haven't won there with a crowd for over 20 years, we've been better than them for most of those years.

The fact we won there the year there was no crowd adds to the shitting the bed narrative.

I've come to terms with expecting a loss there this season, so just need to be perfect before then.

 

[willipp]

Your argument doesn't hold. For a very good proportion of the last 45 years, we ourselves were shit. And shit in a lot of places. Try Wycombe, for instance.
To make current predictions it's wise to look at recent history, i.e. of the last seven or eight years. Nothing in the record of that period suggests any incoming guaranteed loss.

One win since the takeover there in 16 years. Spin it any way you want to but we often fall to pieces at anfield and in a period where we have won 8 league titles and been in the top 2/3 every season, one win aint good.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

One win since the takeover there in 16 years. Spin it any way you want to but we often fall to pieces at anfield and in a period where we have won 8 league titles and been in the top 2/3 every season, one win aint good.

But since 17/18 we haven't "often" fallen to pieces. Liverpool have won twice out of six league games. Agree one win only is not the ebst stat.

 

[willipp]

But since 17/18 we haven't "often" fallen to pieces. Liverpool have won twice out of six league games. Agree one win only is not the ebst stat.

Even last season. We were one up i think and playing well and cruising. Second half a terrible fuck up by ederson / defense and a pen, ederson off injured and eventually lucky to get a point. I'm not saying we always play badly there, but we seem to often have moments/ periods there that just leave me completely frustrated. Add to that we never get decisions there (i can remember so many horrendous refereeing decisions going against us).

 

[Craig]

The league was unprepared for Pep's ball in 17/18 and we were absolutely hungry, given we failed in the previous season.

Competing for and winning the Treble is a superior achievement, all the more part of it was our 3rd league title in a row. We were close last season, too, we forced Real to play like a small team in order to survive. Imo, that midfield (22-24) was superior to 17-19. For starters, Rodri is a better holding midfielder than Ferna. David was much better than Foden at playmaking but Foden is much more prolific....

Give you Rodri but Fernandinho was by far the best in the league at the time. Silva was levels above anyone and Foden never last as an 8. KDB was at the peak of his powers. I don’t think the treble team was better than the team that won the domestic treble. They’ll go down in history and rightly so but for much of that season we were a long way off how we played to win the domestic treble. The scum side that won the treble wasn’t as good a side as the one that won the European cup in 2008 either.

 

[alexmcity]

Give you Rodri but Fernandinho was by far the best in the league at the time. Silva was levels above anyone and Foden never last as an 8. KDB was at the peak of his powers. I don’t think the treble team was better than the team that won the domestic treble. They’ll go down in history and rightly so but for much of that season we were a long way off how we played to win the domestic treble. The scum side that won the treble wasn’t as good a side as the one that won the European cup in 2008 either.

I think many will agree with your point. The domestic treble is a great achievement. But the league cup can't be compared to the CL. We won vs Bayern 3:0 and Real 4:0 to reach the final. This level of dominance vs the best teams in Europe was impossible for the 17-19 team or any English team before. They lost 3 from 4 games vs Spurs and Liverpool in 18 and 19, a bit unlucky maybe, but still not as good as the 22-24 team in the CL. Rodri and Haaland made a difference previous legends couldn't. The 17-19 team were more consistent in the league, but not as good vs the very best.

 

[KingGeorge]

"There isn’t any evidence to support Liverpool as serious title contenders thus far. They finished 9 points off it last year and didn’t add to their squad in a meaningful way while likely downgrading their coaching."

Who says they have downgraded their coaching?

Klopp or the idiots suggesting that a manager than won one PL title out of 9 was the greatest manager that ever lived>?

I'm betting that Slott is an inferior manager to Klopp.

Yes, I think Klopp was an elite manager. I also think Pep is superior to him. The way Pep reacted to him tells me he was a very good manager. Pep has always said facing Klopp's Liverpool teams made us better. That wouldn't be possible if Klopp wasn't a solid manager.

In addition, the track record of managers coming from the Eredivisie to the PL is very poor.

 

[Keeper!]

I'm betting that Slott is an inferior manager to Klopp.

Yes, I think Klopp was an elite manager. I also think Pep is superior to him. The way Pep reacted to him tells me he was a very good manager. Pep has always said facing Klopp's Liverpool teams made us better. That wouldn't be possible if Klopp wasn't a solid manager.

In addition, the track record of managers coming from the Eredivisie to the PL is very poor.

Klopp for me is an elite man manger, but not an elite coach.

 

[youngbob]

Give you Rodri but Fernandinho was by far the best in the league at the time. Silva was levels above anyone and Foden never last as an 8. KDB was at the peak of his powers. I don’t think the treble team was better than the team that won the domestic treble. They’ll go down in history and rightly so but for much of that season we were a long way off how we played to win the domestic treble. The scum side that won the treble wasn’t as good a side as the one that won the European cup in 2008 either.

Agreed. Were it not for VAR's dodgy introduction to the Champions League in 18/19 - allowing Llorente's handball goal to stand when it would have been disallowed if it'd happened just four months later - we'd have definitely done the quadruple that year. We were just locked in from February onwards and would have beaten that Liverpool side in the final. It would have been stressful as fuck but we'd have done it. We had serious grit in defence with Laporte and the balance Pep found by making Mahrez and Sterling inverted wingers, and playing Gundogan slightly deeper next to Fernandinho, with Bernardo more advanced, made us the hardest we've ever been to beat imo.

Ederson
Walker, Kompany, Laporte, Zinchenko
Fernandinho, Gundogan
Mahrez, Bernardo, Sterling
Aguero

What a side that was!

 

[.db.]

Klopp for me is an elite man manger, but not an elite coach.

I don’t think a manager that got 92, 97 and 99 points in the Prem with one Prem title, who’s won two Bundesliga titles, who’s got to four CL finals winning one, who’s got to thirteen other finals winning nine, with a distinctive and effective quick back-to-front style of attacking play and first+second wave press defensive play can possibly not be an elite coach.

Tactically, some of those games we had with Liverpool are the highest quality football games I’ve ever watched. Especially that 2-1 win at the Etihad. I’ve never seen a team move the ball so quickly and crisply from defence to attack as that Klopp team. That takes a lot of work on the training ground to get that good at it.

Tactically, the best teams we faced before Pep came to City were Pep’s Bayern, Enrique’s Barça and Klopp’s Dortmund.

 

[.db.]

Agreed. Were it not for VAR's dodgy introduction to the Champions League in 18/19 - allowing Llorente's handball goal to stand when it would have been disallowed if it'd happened just four months later - we'd have definitely done the quadruple that year. We were just locked in from February onwards and would have beaten that Liverpool side in the final. It would have been stressful as fuck but we'd have done it. We had serious grit in defence with Laporte and the balance Pep found by making Mahrez and Sterling inverted wingers, and playing Gundogan slightly deeper next to Fernandinho, with Bernardo more advanced, made us the hardest we've ever been to beat imo.

Ederson
Walker, Kompany, Laporte, Zinchenko
Fernandinho, Gundogan
Mahrez, Bernardo, Sterling
Aguero

What a side that was!

I found Pep’s team selection against Spurs away puzzling. He didn’t start de Bruyne, Kompany or Bernardo (or to a lesser extent Sané), although he did bring on de Bruyne and Sané in the second half.

Fernandinho got injured in February that season and missed 13 of our last 17 games in all competitions. It was Gündoğan and sometimes Bernardo joining him deeper in that run-in (Fernandinho only managed half an hour in the Spurs home game).

We’d have been without Fernandinho for the CL final against Liverpool though as he missed the final four Prem games and the FA Cup final with a knee injury.

de Bruyne missed a lot of the early season with a knee ligament injury but was back from mid-December but did get another hamstring injury in the final four games and would have also missed the CL final (although you didn’t include him).

I liked us best that season when Laporte played left back with Kompany and Stones central. I thought we looked really solid against Liverpool doing that in the home win but we didn’t play it often.

 

[simmo]

Every little helps - just seen they play Real Madrid before the game at Anfield.

 

[69FACUPfinal]

Agreed. Were it not for VAR's dodgy introduction to the Champions League in 18/19 - allowing Llorente's handball goal to stand when it would have been disallowed if it'd happened just four months later - we'd have definitely done the quadruple that year. We were just locked in from February onwards and would have beaten that Liverpool side in the final. It would have been stressful as fuck but we'd have done it. We had serious grit in defence with Laporte and the balance Pep found by making Mahrez and Sterling inverted wingers, and playing Gundogan slightly deeper next to Fernandinho, with Bernardo more advanced, made us the hardest we've ever been to beat imo.

Ederson
Walker, Kompany, Laporte, Zinchenko
Fernandinho, Gundogan
Mahrez, Bernardo, Sterling
Aguero

What a side that was!

I know. How I miss that team.

 

[alexmcity]

Agreed. Were it not for VAR's dodgy introduction to the Champions League in 18/19 - allowing Llorente's handball goal to stand when it would have been disallowed if it'd happened just four months later - we'd have definitely done the quadruple that year.

Reality doesn't work like that, though. Nobody can be sure about outcomes.

It was difficult enough to beat Burnley and Leicester 1:0 without additional CL games and with injuries to important players. Two more CL games around the final PL games might have cost us the PL. And the CL wasn't guaranteed either. The final was vs Liverpool and any notion that the win was 100 % guaranteed would be silly.

The cold truth was we lost vs Spurs in 2019, being very poor in the 1st leg. Compare that tie to the tie vs Bayern in 2023 or the Liverpool tie in 2018 to the tie vs Madrid in 2023 and the gap in quality is pretty obvious. Underestimating the team that decimated all of Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern and Real in April/May 23 by 3-4 (!) goals is bonkers.

 

[Axel Freed]

The dazzling 20/21 false 9 side that won dozens of games on the bounce was our best ever team and Pep’s best ever team …. the apogee of 50 years of total football.

I’ve never seen football like it, utterly remarkable. Losing a couple of cup games doesn’t detract from the beauty and magnificence of that team

 

[Damanino]

quite a few big games coming between our rivals, Chelsea and Arse both playing dippers, also vs each other, and both playing vs Barcodes as well. Rags-Chelsea in there as well and its all before the next int. break around mid November. so its a much more busy period for rivals than for us (next 4-5 weeks), would be really beneficial not to drop a single point now vs mostly lower half sides.

we need to get our acts together in terms of our pace, defending, and just keep creating more chances with hopefully Foden finding his form from last season, Gundo also, and Kevin coming back and stays fit hopefully while winger starting to add more end product like Doku started just now. Rodri out still a big issue.

Foden did 19 G + 8 A last season which was his best ever and won the Player of the year for that rightly so, but is on 0+0 so far and almost 20% of the rounds are behind us of course he played little due to Euros and some illness, but its time to pick it up. he didnt miss many minutes of PL last season, he played 33 as starter and 2 as a sub sent on so it was only 3 games he did not feature at all. chances are those minutes will be less this season as he already almost missed as much as last season and he may get an injury later on, so his numbers from last season will be hard to replicate imo. if he comes close thats already good, but bit of a worry as Alvarez decent numbers are gone as well and Rodri had immense numbers for a number 6 too which also gone...
huge pressure now on Gundo, Foden, KDB to put this numbers back and we need Haaland to stay fit and firing all season and of course wingers pick it up and deliver goals and assists. I dont like Saka having 7 assist already from right wing which is the same as Savio, Bernardo, Grealish, Doku have together. we can do more from wings, and we will also need to return some of that end product that we sold or wont have due to injury. even the smaller KDB injuries are effecting us badly, he cannot stay fit to start 32-33 games for sure but if he could he is a player who could do 15 G+15A, not many players can do that but we are lucky if he can start 20-22 games. we really need to manage his minutes dont overplay him 3x in a row for 90 mins etc.

nice on Kova being on 3 goals already, did not expect him to add much at all given his track record in PL, but 3 goals in 7 rounds is nice (especially as they were crucial goals rather than scoring the 5th or 6th in a 6-1 win). would be fantastic if he can get close to 9-10.