The Labour Government

BrianW said:
People constantly say: 'You shouldn't have children if you can't afford them.'

Same people: 'We shouldn't have immigrants.'

They just can't see the inconsistency inherent in their position.

It's like saying 'City should win the PL each year' and 'City should always have an English manager and not have any incoming transfer above £20 million.'
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Which people say we shouldn't have any immigrants?
 
hilts said:
Which people say we shouldn't have any immigrants?
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Nobody, but there has definitely been a lack of consistency in the stated aims of the right wing in the UK over the past 10 years. Starting with pensions, you want a system where pensions increase by the maximum possible amount indefinitely, at a time where the largest generation is retiring and there won't be the working-age population to support them. That's fine as long as you can increase the working-age population to support such an outlay, but they also claim to want to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands. So instead, you could rely on increasing the birth rate, but they've done everything possible to disincentivise that too, from capping child benefit to doing very little to address huge childcare costs that parents are forced to pay because it's impossible to survive on a single wage and have one parent stay at home nowadays.

Say what you like about Viktor Orban, but at least he combines his anti-immigration rhetoric with incentives for the local population to have more children. You see being anti-immigrant is fine if you're going to invest properly in enabling Brits to do all of these jobs. I'd be delighted if, instead of having to bring him thousands of doctors and nurses from overseas, thousands of British kids were given the opportunity to train (requires more long-term thinking though), but the thing about right wing politics is that they consistently combine an anti-immigrant rhetoric with fuck all investment in the local population, so all you're left with is public services and businesses with massive skill shortages (which is why even when they spout anti-immigrant rhetoric, the Tories rarely actually do anything to reduce it, because they know it'll make things harder for businesses).
 
metalblue said:
Fixed for you
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Are you not going to give the task force any credit this next five yrs ? Going for the smugglers is great , as well as talking to european heads and going to come up with a joint plan , much more than the tories did , they seemed to hate working with europe when that is the only sensible thing to do
 
kaz7 said:
Are you not going to give the task force any credit this next five yrs ? Going for the smugglers is great , as well as talking to european heads and going to come up with a joint plan , much more than the tories did , they seemed to hate working with europe when that is the only sensible thing to do
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Agree, but the only way you can judge the success of anti people smuggling operations is in the number of small boat crossings. If they drop its being successful.
 
bluealf said:
Again absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my initial post, not sure what you're struggling with tbh.

Labour MP's decide to end or limit the RTB scheme despite the same people purchasing their own council home with this scheme in the past.

news.sky.com

Angela Rayner council house row: What was Labour's deputy leader accused of?

Police say they will be taking no further action against Labour's deputy leader. But what exactly was Ms Rayner accused of, and where did the accusations come from?
news.sky.com news.sky.com

Not even bothered she sold it, just the fact that she thinks it was fine for herself but not for others.

Maybe these are the hypocrites you need to look at.
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We would all be hypocrites in her position. I know I would. Most people would do the best for their family.

Not sure why wider discussion is prompting you getting your knickers in a twist. That's kind of the point of discussion forums.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Agree, but the only way you can judge the success of anti people smuggling operations is in the number of small boat crossings. If they drop its being successful.
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True , this will take time but i think they are getting more smugglers in their sights now and coming up with a plan with the rest of europe

We need staff for the nhs and care system , they are struggling big time since brexit and covid and burnout etc , surely we can assess all migrants quicker , if they are allowed to stay let them crack on and apply for these jobs
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I should have said population has expended since the mid to late 90s. And this is undoubtedly due to immigration.

www.statista.com

UK population 2024| Statista

In 2024, the population of the United Kingdom reached 69.3 million, compared with 68.5 million in 2023.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

www.worldometers.info

U.K. Population (2025) - Worldometer

Population of the United Kingdom: current, historical, and projected population, growth rate, immigration, median age, total fertility rate (TFR), population density, urbanization, urban population, country's share of world population, and global rank. Data tables, maps, charts, and live...
www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info

And the majority of that population growth has occurred in England which just concentrates and exasperates the housing shortage even further.
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According to the govt stats in the House of Commons library, the first year in the 90s that net migration in England & Wales, outstripped other rises was 1999.

However, increases due to more births/less deaths, actually rose again quite considerably, and at some points in the 2010s they again outstripped net migration.

As I said, these figures also don't reflect societal changes, such as the rise in smaller households. Single person households have trebled since 2000 - that's over 5 million additional household, and they are disproportionately white people. So, when you add in the population changes, the societal changes, and net migration, it's a big issue, but picking one area and saying "that's the problem" is oversimplifying.

Not building enough social housing, building too many underoccupied 'investment properties', an increase in second homes, an increase in airbnb/part time rentals, could all be added on the other side of the equation.

There are more issues of supply and demand that I've not even covered. All I'm arguing is that immigration being the main focus is incorrect, especially when their are many reasons why a country's economy can benefit from immigration. Cutting it down dramatically, won't solve housing, and it will have a knock on effect in the wider economy.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
They rent landlords charge is dictated to them by the demand. It's that simple.
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And supply and market conditions which as a collective group they have restricted by Nimbyism and anti-tennant legislation. It's no coincidence that as Maggie was flogging off council houses that legislation that rolled back security of tenure on long term lets.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
We would all be hypocrites in her position. I know I would. Most people would do the best for their family.
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Is it hypocritical to buy a council house in 2007 when you're not an MP, and then 17 years later in the middle of the worst housing crisis in a generation, with souring private rents and huge amounts of public money going to private landlords, suggest that actually, it might not be a bad idea for the government to keep a stock of council housing?
 
bluenova said:
According to the govt stats in the House of Commons library, the first year in the 90s that net migration in England & Wales, outstripped other rises was 1999.

However, increases due to more births/less deaths, actually rose again quite considerably, and at some points in the 2010s they again outstripped net migration.

As I said, these figures also don't reflect societal changes, such as the rise in smaller households. Single person households have trebled since 2000 - that's over 5 million additional household, and they are disproportionately white people. So, when you add in the population changes, the societal changes, and net migration, it's a big issue, but picking one area and saying "that's the problem" is oversimplifying.

Not building enough social housing, building too many underoccupied 'investment properties', an increase in second homes, an increase in airbnb/part time rentals, could all be added on the other side of the equation.

There are more issues of supply and demand that I've not even covered. All I'm arguing is that immigration being the main focus is incorrect, especially when their are many reasons why a country's economy can benefit from immigration. Cutting it down dramatically, won't solve housing, and it will have a knock on effect in the wider economy.
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You only have to look at the population growth. We have had two periods of significant population growth since the war2, a period up until the 1970, the baby boomer period combined with some limited immigration. After this period our population was relatively stable for about 20years. Then we have had a significant popukation increase since the mid 1990s. I assume you are not disputing this later increase in uk population ? If you do not, what do you put this population rise down to? It can be only one of two things? either a sudden increase in uk residents deciding to have more babies or immigration?
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
And supply and market conditions which as a collective group they have restricted by Nimbyism and anti-tennant legislation. It's no coincidence that as Maggie was flogging off council houses that legislation that rolled back security of tenure on long term lets.
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Regardless, it's still supply and demand that controls rent prices. Which I know you agree with even if it is reluctantly.
 
kaz7 said:
True , this will take time but i think they are getting more smugglers in their sights now and coming up with a plan with the rest of europe

We need staff for the nhs and care system , they are struggling big time since brexit and covid and burnout etc , surely we can assess all migrants quicker , if they are allowed to stay let them crack on and apply for these jobs
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Two different things here, one is controlled immigration where people apply for jobs. The other is illegal uncontrolled migration, where the state has no control over the people coming in or their suitability for any job vacancies.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Two different things here, one is controlled immigration where people apply for jobs. The other is illegal uncontrolled migration, where the state has no control over the people coming in or their suitability for any job vacancies.
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It's not illegal if they are asylum seekers and have a valid claim. Another thing to add to the notebook.
 
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