US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

[FogBlueInSanFran]

And? if like you claim they were already at War why did Putin try to claim it was a Special Military operation? Surely it would just be part of the already ongoing War

Can you talk about this somewhere else please?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

There is a difference between a justification and an explanation.

Not when you don’t criticiz(s)e the behavior there isn’t.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Can you talk about this somewhere else please?

The election is over and there are global consequences that will flow directly from that, so talk of Putin, Ukraine for example is on topic imo.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

The election is over and there are global consequences that will flow directly from that, so talk of Putin, Ukraine for example is on topic imo.

You’re right. Those aren’t really top of mind for me right now, but they should be here obviously.

 

[frothy]

Because he didn’t want the Russian people to appreciate they were already at war, albeit in a less heightened state, maybe?

There are hundreds of thousands of wife's and mothers in the extremely poor parts of Russia that now know different, and soon to be in for North Korea at a lesser extent

 

[Scottyboi]

And? if like you claim they were already at War why did Putin try to claim it was a Special Military operation? Surely it would just be part of the already ongoing War

Because it went from russia fighting Ukraine with mercenary groups via proxy to them using their actual army and escalating into trying to take over all of Ukraine.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You’re right. Those aren’t really top of mind for me right now, but they should be here obviously.

I get that mate, and this is obviously far more fundamental and existential for you, and it’s much easier for me to recalibrate my relationship with your country than for you.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Because it went from russia fighting Ukraine with mercenary groups via proxy to them using their actual army and escalating into trying to take over all of Ukraine.

It’s hard not to describe what went on militarily between 2014 and 2022 as a state of war, albeit limited in scope.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The election is over and there are global consequences that will flow directly from that, so talk of Putin, Ukraine for example is on topic imo.

Time for Ukraine to make the best deal they can before Trump serves them up on a platter?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Time for Ukraine to make the best deal they can before Trump serves them up on a platter?

That completely depends on the disposition of the rest of NATO.

We have to operate in the real world, as much as it would pain me to see any deal (which won’t be worth a wank in all likelihood).

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

That completely depends on the disposition of the rest of NATO.

We have to operate in the real world, as much as it would pain me to see any deal (which won’t be worth a wank in all likelihood).

It's a timeout.

But without support and without an army capable of offensive warfare the choice Ukraine has is a timeout or knockout.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

That completely depends on the disposition of the rest of NATO.

We have to operate in the real world, as much as it would pain me to see any deal (which won’t be worth a wank in all likelihood).

Who’s next do you think? Moldova?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It's a timeout.

But without support and without an army capable of offensive warfare the choice Ukraine has is a timeout or knockout.

I’m afraid you’re probably right.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Because he didn’t want the Russian people to appreciate they were already at war, albeit in a less heightened state, maybe?

It's simpler than that, Putin does not consider Ukraine a sovereign nation, so it's not a war, just some internal difficulty, he's not alone in this. A great many Russians consider Ukraine a breakaway province, a region that was part of Russia for centuries, a pretend country that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed and the hated Yeltsin was too drunk to notice.

Solidarity with Ukraine is strongest in Western Europe, but the further away from Europe you go that support dwindles. If Trump pulls American support and imposes a "peace" settlement, with Russia taking a third of Ukraine, then Zelensky is finished and in the inevitable political chaos that follows Ukraine will be at Russia's mercy and Putin will roll in and take the rest.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Who’s next do you think? Moldova?

Depends on the deal. The only way Russia will possibly keep to any agreement is to protect what is left to the west of where any lines are drawn.

That’s still unfortunate and regrettable but not catastrophic in the wider scheme of things.

I think it’s possible that there will be a complete realignment in Europe’s relationship with the US - which of course is what Putin will want.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Not when you don’t criticiz(s)e the behavior there isn’t.

I've already criticised it, and frankly I thought it would be a given that a crowd of blokes abusing a girl is wrong.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It's simpler than that, Putin does not consider Ukraine a sovereign nation, he's not alone in this. A great many Russians consider Ukraine a breakaway province, a region that was part of Russia for centuries, a pretend country that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed and the hated Yeltsin was too drunk to notice.

Solidarity with Ukraine is strongest in Western Europe, but the further away from Europe you go that support dwindles. If Trump pulls American support and imposes a "peace" settlement, with Russia taking a third of Ukraine, then Zelensky is finished and in the inevitable political chaos that follows Ukraine will be at Russia's mercy and Putin will roll in and take the rest.

I have a reasonable (if fairly basic) understanding of the history of Russia’s relationship Ukraine - and vice versa, although I would suggest anti Russian sentiment in the unoccupied parts of Ukraine is at its apogee right now and with the advances in drone technology and guerrilla warfare in recent years I’m not sure it was be quite as straightforward as Russia simply rolling in.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Anyone noticed that all Trump's foreign policies seem to align with Putin's, whose foreign policies in turn seem to be in place to enrich his oligarch mates?

It's uncanny

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

It's simpler than that, Putin does not consider Ukraine a sovereign nation, so it's not a war, just some internal difficulty, he's not alone in this. A great many Russians consider Ukraine a breakaway province, a region that was part of Russia for centuries, a pretend country that broke away when the Soviet Union collapsed and the hated Yeltsin was too drunk to notice.

Solidarity with Ukraine is strongest in Western Europe, but the further away from Europe you go that support dwindles. If Trump pulls American support and imposes a "peace" settlement, with Russia taking a third of Ukraine, then Zelensky is finished and in the inevitable political chaos that follows Ukraine will be at Russia's mercy and Putin will roll in and take the rest.

Perhaps it’s time for the U.K. to take back the USA, citing internal difficulties at a tea party a few years back. :-)

 

[inbetween]

Perhaps it’s time for the U.K. to take back the USA, citing internal difficulties at a tea party a few years back. :-)

I'm game, tally-ho.