Russian invasion of Ukraine

[roubaixtuesday]

No surprise the Russians are all in.

Strategically, they think they've won with the bullies coming to the White House ecstatic they've a weak Ukraine to punch.



Sadly, Putin may be right, but equally Musk might prove to be just one in a long line of people underestimating Ukraine.

 

[west didsblue]

No surprise the Russians are all in.

Strategically, they think they've won with the bullies coming to the White House ecstatic they've a weak Ukraine to punch.

View attachment 138301

Sadly, Putin may be right, but equally Musk might prove to be just one in a long line of people underestimating Ukraine.

For Trump, the reason for dropping support to Ukraine is probably as petty as Zelenskyy refusing to go along with the Hunter Biden stitch up four years ago.

 

[jrb]

With Russian meat waves and missile strikes the way they are, it's clear the Russians are going for broke.

In hisorical terms It could be seen as an analog to the 1918 German WW1 Summer Offensive all over again. For those who read history books this offensive broke Germany and ended the war.

Alternatively, ut coukd be considered as an analogue of the Tet offensive in the Vietnam war. North Vietnam' suffered a catestrophic dedeat. It's losses were so accute they would have been on the back foot for years to come. But n this occasion the offensive broke the will of the American public and politicians and a US surrender of sorts subsequently happened. But under the hood North Vietnam was ruined and if political will had been maintained the war WOULD have gone the other way.

Putin has piled all his chips in on the on the latter. How will the west proceed from here?

To be honest I'm not optimistic. The west MUST double down on it's support for Ukraine or suffer bad consequences for years to come. Sadly I see spineless wonders on many European capitals.

On the plus side, Putin and Russia continue to deplete their armed forces, equipment and missiles, whilst NATO helps Ukraine and manages its stock of equipment and missiles. At the same time NATO gathers valuable information on the quantity of the Russian army and their leadership, whilst planning to counter any possible future attack by Putin and Russia on any NATO country.(which won’t happen) It might sound harsh, and it is, but this war has given NATO a valuable insight into the Russian armies capabilities and its (outdated) war tactics. Something that wouldn’t have been possible without Russian invasion of Ukraine. Apologies for being so blunt. All the best to the army and people of Ukraine.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

For Trump, the reason for dropping support to Ukraine is probably as petty as Zelenskyy refusing to go along with the Hunter Biden stitch up four years ago.

Yup.

Plus it's the opposite of Biden.

But I would guess even more so, it's simply an expression of power. He gets off on coercing people to comply with him.

 

[cleavers]

It might sound harsh, and it is, but this war has given NATO a valuable insight into the Russian armies capabilities and its (outdated) war tactics.

You might be right, but I'm not sure what use all this insight is to NATO ?

NATO is never going to go into russia, and russia can't even execute it's "special operation" against Ukraine effectively, never mind the rest of Europe. The only use, is that it shows NATO that the russian military is pretty useless. It might also be useful to china, who would appear to have (or be building) a far more useful military than russia have ever had.

Insight or not, all it's doing is helping destroy a soveriegn country, not to mention the lives lost on both sides of the conflict, military or civilian.

But I would guess even more so, it's simply an expression of power. He gets off on coercing people to comply with him.

I think we will fine a different trump in reality, when he gets back in the hot seat, it's to gobby shite when not in charge, than when you are, and have to deal with the reality of dealing with those that oil the wheels of government, not to mention the rest of the world.

 

[west didsblue]

I think we will fine a different trump in reality, when he gets back in the hot seat, it's to gobby shite when not in charge, than when you are, and have to deal with the reality of dealing with those that oil the wheels of government, not to mention the rest of the world.

Whilst he won’t do everything he’s said he will do, it won’t be because he has changed his opinion. It will be because it will not be possible. He won’t change in himself. He’ll be there talking complete shit, making stupid threats and delivering the threats that are in his power to do so. Sadly, withdrawing support from Ukraine is one he will be able to deliver as he did when he surrendered to the Taliban setting in stone the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Similar story in Syria when he shafted the Kurds.
Hopefully Europe will step up and help Ukraine but with countries like Hungary involved it’s going to be practically impossible.

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Russia going for broke:

Russia going for broke:

Flight path of above missiles and Drones.

Slava Ukraini.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

No surprise the Russians are all in.

Strategically, they think they've won with the bullies coming to the White House ecstatic they've a weak Ukraine to punch.

View attachment 138301

Sadly, Putin may be right, but equally Musk might prove to be just one in a long line of people underestimating Ukraine.

My God what a complete and utter tosser Musk is!

 

[roubaixtuesday]

My God what a complete and utter tosser Musk is!

Unsurprisingly, all of Trump's inner circle are utter pond life.

Nevertheless, they manage somehow to surprise by continually demonstrating yet worse aspects of their nature.

I really, really hate bullies, and that's what these scum are at heart. They enjoy exerting power to humiliate others.

 

[fulabeer]

My God what a complete and utter tosser Musk is!

He is, but that pic may not be real. If so, then he is an even bigger prick than i thought.

 

[west didsblue]

He is, but that pic may not be real. If so, then he is an even bigger prick than i thought.

That pic is real. Musk is as big a prick as you’re ever likely to find.
Hope his vile behaviour puts people off buying Teslas, and it becomes as poisonous a brand as X.
The ****.

 

[cleavers]

Whilst he won’t do everything he’s said he will do, it won’t be because he has changed his opinion. It will be because it will not be possible. He won’t change in himself. He’ll be there talking complete shit, making stupid threats and delivering the threats that are in his power to do so.

Oh I agree there, but he'll find getting out of NATO (I think that was more a threat to others than an aim) much more difficult, his own military structure will be very difficult to deal with on that one, and NATO will carry on it's support for Ukraine, therefore reluctantly he will.

Others have alluded to it before, but him ending that conflict will massage his ego quite a bit, something I think he'll be more interested in. I think it's very different to Afghan or Syria, where I think the west wanted out more generally.

Afghan had very little strategic significance, once bin ladin/al queda had been broken up, and whilst brutal the taliban don't seem to have much interest outside their own border like they once did (and they probably have bigger internal issues).

The main aim in the conflict in Syria/Iraq was to destroy IS, and that was largely achieved, and they haven't fully pulled away from that aim anyway, they have maintained (as have the UK) a control over it in that region.

I think no matter he says re Ukraine, NATO will continue to support it in various ways, NATO has a lot of elements in it with vested interests, so I'm more optimistic than some for Ukraine.

 

[fulabeer]

That pic is real. Musk is as big a prick as you’re ever likely to find.
Hope his vile behaviour puts people off buying Teslas, and it becomes as poisonous a brand as X.
The ****.

"He sense of humour" instead of "His" made me think it was fake etc.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Yup.

Plus it's the opposite of Biden.

But I would guess even more so, it's simply an expression of power. He gets off on coercing people to comply with him.

Sorry, but in the cold light of day Biden's support has been half hearted.
He has been trying to balance supporting Ukraine without escalation and also trying to prevent Russia collapsing. Yet on the other hand, every Escalation by Russia has been ignored so Putin thinks he cam get away with it.
Pussy footing around with a bully doesn't work.

 

[west didsblue]

"He sense of humour" instead of "His" made me think it was fake etc.

I held my nose and checked his Twitter feed. It’s real.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Sorry, but in the cold light of day Biden's support has been half hearted.
He has been trying to balance supporting Ukraine without escalation and also trying to prevent Russia collapsing. Yet on the other hand, every Escalation by Russia has been ignored so Putin thinks he cam get away with it.
Pussy footing around with a bully doesn't work.

Yes, I agree with that.

But regardless as to how effective Biden has been, the intent was to support Ukraine.

Trump will, I think, likely do the opposite just because he can. In the same way he attempted to undermine Obamacare; not because he was actually opposed to it, but just because it was done by Obama.

Trump operates as a mafia Don; everything, literally everything, is about either projecting power, or personal enrichment and ideally both. There's no ideology whatever. He doesn't care one iota for anything else.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I held my nose and checked his Twitter feed. It’s real.

@west didsblue , dirtying themselves for the sake of facts and truth.

A true hero of the Internet age.

 

[BobKowalski]

Sorry, but in the cold light of day Biden's support has been half hearted.
He has been trying to balance supporting Ukraine without escalation and also trying to prevent Russia collapsing. Yet on the other hand, every Escalation by Russia has been ignored so Putin thinks he cam get away with it.
Pussy footing around with a bully doesn't work.

Agreed. The solution will always be Europeans taking responsibility for their collective security. The Polish PM Tusk and Macron have both said this as the US is too unreliable, or to be accurate puts its interests first.

The UK needs to be involved in any European Defence initiative. Europe has the means and capacity to do it and could piggyback the NATO infrastructure. All that’s needed is the political will and that is more likely to come from Poland and other Eastern European nations who have experienced Russian occupation. France and the UK could also be powerful advocates.

Will it happen? I have no idea, but sometimes events force nations into actions they are ordinarily reluctant to take. It also wouldn’t surprise me if we saw Polish troops in Ukraine. A hostile Russian led Ukraine on their immediate border is not something they want to see.

 

[west didsblue]

Trump operates as a mafia Don; everything, literally everything, is about either projecting power, or personal enrichment and ideally both. There's no ideology whatever. He doesn't care one iota for anything else.

Like I said earlier it’s likely to be as much about revenge as anything else. That’s equally high on his list of reasons for doing things.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Seems about the right time to bring down that bridge.