UAP/UFO thread - Non-Human Intelligences

[Magicpole]

This whole thread is pointless.

Yet here we both are.

My saying it on here, sure, pretty pointless.

As a principle though, far from it, and that's what science as a whole has always been and always will be based on.

The whole thread is anything but pointless. It is opening a discussion about UFO’s and alien intelligent life. I have a serious problem believing that in an observable universe of 2 Trillion galaxies, we are alone as an intelligent species. I also believe their technology could be more advanced than ours. Due to the distances involved, any space travel would require thousands of generations of beings travelling. Who would be immune to radiation. I don’t believe we have ever been visited, seeded or any of that baseless theory. I can’t explain what they all are, but that doesn’t move me to aliens. Just like I don’t jump to the god of the gaps, when science says, we don’t know. That’s too easy. Am I saying no alien will ever visit, no. What I am saying is it would need to be a vessel that has travelled for millions of years. They, like us, cannot break physical boundaries like travelling faster than light.

Here are some reasons why:

• Infinite energy: It would take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate any material object to the speed of light.
  
  
• Mass: As matter approaches the speed of light, its mass becomes infinite.
  
  
• Relativity: Velocities must be added relativistically, not under the conventional Galilean/Newtonian rules.
  

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN accelerates protons to 99.999997% the speed of light. However, it uses an amount of energy equivalent to 30 plutonium-core nuclear bombs to do so.

It can’t be done. Some things are just the way it is. Light is a barrier and distance is overwhelming even at the speed of light. We might pick up signals or even intelligent information, but it will have travelled for millions of years. The night sky and stars we look at, is what it looked like relative to its distance from us. We see the sun as it was 8 minutes ago. It could have exploded as I write this 7.59 secs ago. Hold on, what’s that flash.

The only pointless thing is arguing over whether we think relativity is a fact. It is. That’s may disappoint, it may curtail imaginative speculation, that in itself may be entertaining. That doesn’t mean hoping some other species may be able to it, means they can. If they could, wouldn’t they have been here by now? Introduced themselves, other than probing the arses of thick as fuck Americans. Or mutilating cows. They haven’t arrived, because they can’t. Just like us. That relativity baby.

 

[calumdown]

No you fucking don’t. Thanks for admitting you wasted your time. It happens.

there's no need to start throwing insults about.
it doesn't come across very well

regurgitating what current textbooks state is your only argument.
that's what people who only read do.
it's not what people who theorise do.

science hasn't ended.
what we think we know right now has every chance of being disproved.

science is constantly updated.
that's what science is all about,
trying to prove that what is already known isn't quite right.
coming up with new theories and ideas.
and funnily enough it is stubborn folk like you that shout them down,
until eventually they become what is considered current thinking,
and then people like you shout down anyone who challenges them.

i bet you read new scientist, haha.

have you actually spent any length of time with theoretical physicists?
i have and they're all mad as a bag of onions and lovely with it.
they don't start swearing at other people who have different viewpoints.

anyroad,
i've shown you respect by replying to your awkward manner.
this is the final thing i intend to ever say to you...

a theory is and always will be a theory until it is proven.
if you wish to believe otherwise then fine.

i expect you believe in the big bang, don't you?
i expect you shout and swear at other folk who question its validity.
and yet,
there are countless physicists who are working on trying to come up with a different idea.
because, as yet, it is still a theory.
you may doubt that.
but the truth of the matter is it has not been proven
and just because it is spouted as fact doesn't make it true.
the physics fall apart at the very last moment.

you'll likely shout and swear at me again.
feel free, i shan't reply.

Had you been "educated for many years to become a theoretical physicist," you wouldn't have used the phrase "just a theory," confused theory and hypothesis, and then begun to argue semantics.

okay.
i must have dreamed it.
you are right.

 

[Magicpole]

I like u as a poster Mp, ur ok for a sweaty. But I think you’re wide of the mark here. You keep saying it’s not possible due to the laws of physics, but it’s only our knowledge. There is so much more to learn, so much that it’s probably not possible to learn it all. Might be wishful thinking on my part, as I’d love extraterrestrials to make themselves known, but I like to believe!!!

Nothing wrong with wishful thinking and exploring the boundaries. The issue is, our intelligence as a species has managed to work out, the actual speed of light, and the theory of relativity showed, and was tested and proven what would happen to any mass travelling at or beyond that limit. If we were to jump into a spaceship, travel at 99.9999 the spend of light, for a year, we would return to a distant future who would still have guys saying, you never know.

We do know. It’s a ****, but it’s a thing. Just like cunts everywhere.

 

[Magicpole]

there's no need to start throwing insults about.
it doesn't come across very well

regurgitating what current textbooks state is your only argument.
that's what people who only read do.
it's not what people who theorise do.

science hasn't ended.
what we think we know right now has every chance of being disproved.

science is constantly updated.
that's what science is all about,
trying to prove that what is already known isn't quite right.
coming up with new theories and ideas.
and funnily enough it is stubborn folk like you that shout them down,
until eventually they become what is considered current thinking,
and then people like you shout down anyone who challenges them.

i bet you read new scientist, haha.

have you actually spent any length of time with theoretical physicists?
i have and they're all mad as a bag of onions and lovely with it.
they don't start swearing at other people who have different viewpoints.

anyroad,
i've shown you respect by replying to your awkward manner.
this is the final thing i intend to ever say to you...

a theory is and always will be a theory until it is proven.
if you wish to believe otherwise then fine.

i expect you believe in the big bang, don't you?
i expect you shout and swear at other folk who question its validity.
and yet,
there are countless physicists who are working on trying to come up with a different idea.
because, as yet, it is still a theory.
you may doubt that.
but the truth of the matter is it has not been proven
and just because it is spouted as fact doesn't make it true.
the physics fall apart at the very last moment.

you'll likely shout and swear at me again.
feel free, i shan't reply.



okay.
i must have dreamed it.
you are right.

It’s not an insult. It’s a fact. Just like relativity. You can have an opinion. My opinion was that you wasted your time. Not you were a **** for doing it. Do whatever you want, but saying you studied it for years and came to your conclusion baffles me. Is being baffled now on the offensive list?

 

[Bigga]

I’m out. It’s like debating an evangelical Christian, dogma and personal beliefs trump reality. Enjoy your delusion that suits how you want things to be.

Mate, you're literally claiming nothing is superior to a Human's knowledge... in a universe, no, a galaxy... sorry a planet we've never left to set foot on another, nevermind discover another life form!

In a universe with likely TRILLIONS of planets (and billions is enough) that we know best!!

Okay, buddy.

 

[doobyedoobye]

I think the reports suggesting there may be drones coming from the sea is pretty fascinating ..

 

[blueparrot]

Mate, you're literally claiming nothing is superior to a Human's knowledge... in a universe, no, a galaxy... sorry a planet we've never left to set foot on another, nevermind discover another life form!

In a universe with likely TRILLIONS of planets (and billions is enough) that we know best!!

Okay, buddy.

He isn't, he's claiming we know the boundries. We and others will know how to use science within those boundries better. We won't and no other beings can change those boundries.

 

[Bigga]

He isn't, he's claiming we know the boundries. We and others will know how to use science within those boundries better. We won't and no other beings can change those boundries.

Yes. "Boundaries" are set within a region you can prove or imagine. That is only set within the limits you have or that you can see.

You can imagine other planetary life forms, but you can't see them. You can see space, you can see other planets via telescope or other stars via Hubble. That's our limit, right now. We know of no other intelligence there... yet.

It is only OUR limits stopping us from learning more than what WE know. Other possible intelligence may have surpassed us. We can't possibly know as of this moment with no official known contact, so we can't assume other possible life forms have a similar limit.

That would be crazy talk!

 

[blueparrot]

Yes. "Boundaries" are set within a region you can prove or imagine. That is only set within the limits you have or that you can see.

You can imagine other planetary life forms, but you can't see them. You can see space, you can see other planets via telescope or other stars via Hubble. That's our limit, right now. We know of no other intelligence there... yet.

It is only OUR limits stopping us from learning more than what WE know. Other possible intelligence may have surpassed us. We can't possibly know as of this moment with no official known contact, so we can't assume other possible life forms have a similar limit.

That would be crazy talk!

No boundries we have proved the effects of.Physics has the same boundries for all life forms in the universe. Physics isn't the same as science and technology.

 

[Bigga]

No boundries we have proved the effects of.Physics has the same boundries for all life forms in the universe. Physics isn't the same as science and technology.

I know physics isn't the same as science and technology as we speak because 'boundaries'.

Those 'boundaries' are only from what we know. We've come on in leaps and bounds in the last 100-150 years, which means we are learning as time goes on. We, as a species, are quick to learn.

Trillions of other planets which impossible numbers of other intellect have very good odds on learning and knowing things at a better rate and in a better way.

It's impossible to argue that theory based, solely, on our own limitations.

 

[Magicpole]

Mate, you're literally claiming nothing is superior to a Human's knowledge... in a universe, no, a galaxy... sorry a planet we've never left to set foot on another, nevermind discover another life form!

In a universe with likely TRILLIONS of planets (and billions is enough) that we know best!!

Okay, buddy.

No I’m not. You require a certain amount of intelligence to know what we know. That in no way says others couldn’t. What I am saying is they won’t get able to travel that fast for the same reason we can’t. That it.

 

[blueparrot]

I know physics isn't the same as science and technology as we speak because 'boundaries'.

Those 'boundaries' are only from what we know. We've come on in leaps and bounds in the last 100-150 years, which means we are learning as time goes on. We, as a species, are quick to learn.

Trillions of other planets which impossible numbers of other intellect have very good odds on learning and knowing things at a better rate and in a better way.

It's impossible to argue that theory based, solely, on our own limitations.

They aren't our limitations, they are laws of physics, It isn't based on theory it's based on tested fact.We can't learn them out of existence.

 

[Magicpole]

No boundries we have proved the effects of.Physics has the same boundries for all life forms in the universe. Physics isn't the same as science and technology.

In the same way that without whisky, you can’t have a whisky. You don’t have physics, the other two don’t happen.

 

[blueparrot]

In the same way that without whisky, you can’t have a whisky. You don’t have physics, the other two don’t happen.

Took me longer than it should to work that out :)

 

[Magicpole]

Took me longer than it should to work that out :)

It’s takes us a bit longer now, doesn’t mean we don’t get there. Means we head off into rooms for no apparent reason, but as soon as you get your arse back in your chair, it comes back why you went there. Decide you didn’t need it enough to get up twice, wait patiently for someone else to go into the same room and ask them to bring it through. As if it just occurred to you. I’ve sat squinty at the telly for hours rather than get up twice to get my glasses.

I wish I was making that up.

 

[Bigga]

No I’m not. You require a certain amount of intelligence to know what we know. That in no way says others couldn’t. What I am saying is they won’t get able to travel that fast for the same reason we can’t. That it.

Okay. I'm not trying to argue with you.

I just happen to disagree.

For me, a different set of circumstances in a different environment working with a different set of intellectual species that has a different outlook and results to our own understanding of the existence we see would yield different results.

Why is it impossible to have physics work differently elsewhere and therefore dealing with the mathematics of mass and speed hasn't been solved? We cannot possibly know and to assume to know would be foolish.

But, cool thoughts and chat.

 

[Bigga]

They aren't our limitations, they are laws of physics, It isn't based on theory it's based on tested fact.We can't learn them out of existence.

Again. Different planet, different intellect working with different elements comes up with a different theory of physics as it relates to that planet/ existence.

How can you know the unknowns but that they are 'known unknowns' only?

 

[Magicpole]

Okay. I'm not trying to argue with you.

I just happen to disagree.

For me, a different set of circumstances in a different environment working with a different set of intellectual species that has a different outlook and results to our own understanding of the existence we see would yield different results.

Why is it impossible to have physics work differently elsewhere and therefore dealing with the mathematics of mass and speed hasn't been solved? We cannot possibly know and to assume to know would be foolish.

But, cool thoughts and chat.

“Why is it impossible to have physics work differently elsewhere and therefore dealing with the mathematics of mass and speed hasn't been solved? We cannot possibly know and to assume to know would be foolish.”

We know the laws apply the same everywhere we have looked. That’s why.

Edit: I wasn’t arguing either. We were engaged in a robust discourse of the topic. Enjoyed it too.

 

[Magicpole]

Again. Different planet, different intellect working with different elements comes up with a different theory of physics as it relates to that planet/ existence.

How can you know the unknowns but that they are 'known unknowns' only?

Different planet. Same physics. That’s it. Might be vastly advanced, doesn’t matter, it can’t be done.

 

[Bigga]

Different planet. Same physics. That’s it. Might be vastly advanced, doesn’t matter, it can’t be done.

So, you're assuming that life, with the chemicals and gases that make up the composite of our planet is on every planet that has an 'atmosphere'? Who's to say what kind of 'atmosphere' allows the same effect on metals they'll have against what we have? Who says that the life there doesn't grow 15 ft or 1 inch, fly and both have vastly superior workings of mathematics and science as we know it?

We haven't landed on another planet in any other solar system to test any man made theories. Agreed? We don't know the effect of their sun on their elements on their planet. Agreed? And we don't know the weight of gravity on their planet since we've never set foot another anywhere else. Agreed or not?

So, basically, we don't know at this stage of our existence how all the mix of those components come together anywhere else. Like we don't even know the workings of a proposed 'black hole' which, literally, bends the possible theory of all elements out of whack... cos we have no idea what it is, where it possibly goes or what possibly happens in and around it.

It could, very possibly, be similar to a light refraction, but in space.

Honestly, I don't see how you can extrapolate our thinking here to a 'known unknown'.