PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Newman Noggs]

Being that we both agree if City were to be essentially cleared it would be deemed a circus why would the Prem put themselves in such a position. I don't see the risk/reward from a rational business standpoint. I believe the Prem could have proceeded with their investigation and subsequent charges without basically instigating a public bloodbath. That's just my opinion.

Also, I don't see how the Prem "win". We are either cleared and it all looks like what some of us believe or we are found in violation and ruined leaving the Prem to explain how a club was able to reach a dominant status in their league over a period extending well beyond a decade only to have been in breach of a slew of serious rules over the same extended period of time. I don't see how that would strengthen the league's position of being some kind of effective self regulator. For me it further highlights their ineptitude and raises the need for someone independent to regulate what goes on.

Whilst I agree with virtually everything you say, I think that you mistakenly try to attribute reason to a corporation that has no mind of its own. It's reason and logic exist only in the minds of its shareholders and there isn't one of the other shareholders, even those that vote with us on some issues, who wouldn't want to see us wiped off the face of the earth taking our trophies with us Furthermore, I think the most powerful shareholders wouldn't be sorry to see the PL collapse to be replaced with something even more controllable. Indeed, I believe that is the end game here.

 

[johnevans]

Don’t worry. If we get cleared, then 115 (yes, I know 130 is the true figure but as you say 115 has stuck) will be the biggest marketing tool our club has ever had and we’ll be able to turn it on its head. It won’t just be the club either - the 1894 Group will never go short of ideas for at least another decade because, believe me, we are going to milk it to fuck to the point that fans of the red cartel cunts (and Spurs) will wish they hadn’t set foot in our stadium. It’ll be relentless as fuck!

Indeed.. I look forward to us being cleared and the response that will follow from our side to ram it down various Red Cartel, Media and Internet Herberts' throats.. all done with some style and panache, of course!

I'd suggest a celebratory album of covers, hits reworked to reflect the magic number itself, for example:

'One After 115' - The Beatles
'115 Ways To Leave Your Lover' - Paul Simon
'115 Or 6 To 4' - Chicago
'It Takes 115' - Marvin Gaye/Kim Weston
'115 Luftballons' - Nena
'Happy Birthday Sweet 115' - Neil Sedaka
'One (One Five)' - U2

 

[Lost for words]

It’s absolutely mental how many mugs are fooled into assuming a level of guilt simply down to the number of charges, without actually having any idea whatsoever of what the substance of the charges are. The sheer number of charges has not occurred out of anything other than rancour and malice.

If it was ONE serious charge then I for one could live with that with every confidence that the club could address the issue properly and with whatever it takes to reach a sensible decision leaving us, the EPL and UEFA to move on with satisfaction.
But this cannot happen as the authorities in dragging their feet have allowed it all to fester and the likes of the Sun readers and the the Star readers are to assume the charges are for real, ALL 115 of them, and that City are bang-to-rights guilty. The result of this assumption is that our season has been ruined, our summer rebuild likewise ruined and our supporters in their blue shirts out and about are called cheats.
Maybe our business model is shrinking through this and that, all along, was ALWAYS the intention.
And as nothing seemingly happens, such garbage as regularly appears in websites such as Football 365 just peddle this same old rubbish with what punishments are ready and waiting for the day the verdict is announced. Nothing is ever said about what will happen if City are cleared of all charges, but my assumption here is that we will be in full gloating mode while the rabble continue to accuse City of being cheats with billions being spent on so-called sports washing.
⁰

 

[Niall666]

Don’t worry. If we get cleared, then 115 (yes, I know 130 is the true figure but as you say 115 has stuck) will be the biggest marketing tool our club has ever had and we’ll be able to turn it on its head. It won’t just be the club either - the 1894 Group will never go short of ideas for at least another decade because, believe me, we are going to milk it to fuck to the point that fans of the red cartel cunts (and Spurs) will wish they hadn’t set foot in our stadium. It’ll be relentless as fuck!

1894 Group will take care of everything.... Generous contributions will come flying in for a big fuck off banner draping the East stand on a super Sunday game. For all to see.

 

[JewelZee]

I agree with all of that especially the disaster for the PL if they win - I have been trying to explain this for months.

But I don't agree the worst case is City were just gaming "man made" rules. Sadly the worst case seems to me to be worse than that. Nobody can go around making up financial statements - even if no PL rules existed (and in 2010 there were barely any rules) making up your numbers would still be a breach and is (criminally) contrary to company law too. The type of thing alleged by PL can be a civil offence and criminal offence - the PL couldn't prosecute as a crime but in the outside world it is SFO type crime.

I worded that poorly, my apologies. I meant "at worst" to mean I think that is the worst thing we may have done. I'm discounting the idea that we committed wide spread criminal fraud out of hand. I understand that the Prem are saying that's what we did, but I think that to be near impossible. That's why I'm saying why create a bloodbath.

If they succeed in getting us on "gaming" some rules as I said we will still be ruined. The fallout for us in the public domain will be colossal. Other than being able to say we got you is it worth it to the league to destroy an entire era of Prem football?

If somehow they were able to actually prove the worst of the charges then all bets are off. I for one would be shocked and completely crestfallen...

 

[JewelZee]

Whilst I agree with virtually everything you say, I think that you mistakenly try to attribute reason to a corporation that has no mind of its own. It's reason and logic exist only in the minds of its shareholders and there isn't one of the other shareholders, even those that vote with us on some issues, who wouldn't want to see us wiped off the face of the earth taking our trophies with us Furthermore, I think the most powerful shareholders wouldn't be sorry to see the PL collapse to be replaced with something even more controllable. Indeed, I believe that is the end game here.

Sad and disgraceful...

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

interesting how this is viewed from different perspectives.

From a purely legal standpoint I see why you view it as having no tangible impact on the case itself.

However, I see it as the thin end of the wedge in terms of it revealing a highly-dysfunctional organisation.

From a comms perspective, issuing a release of this gravity with factual/legal errors is a never event that can’t happen with basic policies and procedures in place.

Someone has pressed “send” on a press release (arguably the most contentious press release ever issued by the organisation) without having assurance over its accuracy.

That is simply astonishing.

1) A comms dept operating with even the most basic safeguards would never issue anything externally with a legal implication without having sign-off from legal.

2) A legal department demands oversight and sign off of anything issued externally with a legal implication (certainly something of this profile)

3) The CEO / board ensures correct policies/procedures in place. For a release of this importance you would imagine they would seek assurance these policies had been followed before final sign off.

The only way that press release gets issued is if all three of the above points are absent, otherwise the errors are caught and rectified.

To have such a fundamental failure on all three accounts can only happen in an organisation with appalling internal governance and ultimately shambolic leadership.

This is all correct. And if you read the evidence from the APT case it confrms that the PL is dysfunctional and irrational in its dealings with City.

 

[JewelZee]

Indeed.. I look forward to us being cleared and the response that will follow from our side to ram it down various Red Cartel, Media and Internet Herberts' throats.. all done with some style and panache, of course!

I'd suggest a celebratory album of covers, hits reworked to reflect the magic number itself, for example:

'One After 115' - The Beatles
'115 Ways To Leave Your Lover' - Paul Simon
'115 Or 6 To 4' - Chicago
'It Takes 115' - Marvin Gaye/Kim Weston
'115 Luftballons' - Nena
'Happy Birthday Sweet 115' - Neil Sedaka
'One (One Five)' - U2

115 Candles - The Crests
Mambo No. 115 - Lou Bega
115 Times a Lady - The Commodores
867-5115 - Tommy Tutone
9 to 115 - Dolly Parton
Another 115 Bite the Dust - Queen
!!5 Days a Week - The Beatles encore

 

[LeonardoDaVnci]

This is all correct. And if you read the evidence from the APT case it confrms that the PL is dysfunctional and irrational in its dealings with City.

The nonsense spouted by Mai Fyfield in the APT case re her workload was ridiculous. Working late into the night, up very early in the morning etc etc. The subject matter in hand was the renewal of the Etihad contract with a value around £800m, but it sounded like an undergraduate stressing over her dissertation. The lack of professionalism was just astonishing, I couldn't believe what I was reading. Worst still the Panel thought she was an exceptionally good witness....

 

[TinFoilHat]

The Mirror reporting Forest and Chelsea might get another points deductions for failing PSR again.

Both just happen to be in the top 4.

 

[dubblue]

Sky news reporting Forest and Chelsea might get another points deductions for failing PSR again.

Both just happen to be in the top 4.

Funny how none of the red cartel ever even get close to failing FFP/PSR. Well we know United actually did breach PSR by £75m and got special dispensation from the PL.

 

[BamberBridgeBlue]

Whilst I agree with virtually everything you say, I think that you mistakenly try to attribute reason to a corporation that has no mind of its own. It's reason and logic exist only in the minds of its shareholders and there isn't one of the other shareholders, even those that vote with us on some issues, who wouldn't want to see us wiped off the face of the earth taking our trophies with us Furthermore, I think the most powerful shareholders wouldn't be sorry to see the PL collapse to be replaced with something even more controllable. Indeed, I believe that is the end game here.

You get it.

Like a spoilt child refusing to share toys. If they can’t control the train set, they’ll wreck it. Manchester City should be willing to play the part of the pasty, white, weedy, dodgy moustachioed team playing the Harlem Globetrotters. That’s the “traditional” football pyramid and it should never change. Let’s erase the last decade, like the Bobby Ewing emerging from the shower scene, and pretend it was all a rotten nightmare.

My apologies to anybody under 50 reading this post.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

The nonsense spouted by Mai Fyfield in the APT case re her workload was ridiculous. Working late into the night, up very early in the morning etc etc. The subject matter in hand was the renewal of the Etihad contract with a value around £800m, but it sounded like an undergraduate stressing over her dissertation. The lack of professionalism was just astonishing, I couldn't believe what I was reading. Worst still the Panel thought she was an exceptionally good witness....

The APT case evidence is shocking to read. Imagine a situation where PL officials reject the amount proposed for the Etihad sponsorship out of hand and refuse to even explain their reasoning to City for doing so. Then they ask City to provide their rationale for our figures. We provide those details as requested and the PL take months to reply and then they reply with 96 fresh questions for City to answer. They were just taking the piss out of us. Bad faith is too kind a phrase to use.

 

[Broken Biscuits]

115 Candles - The Crests
Mambo No. 115 - Lou Bega
115 Times a Lady - The Commodores
867-5115 - Tommy Tutone
9 to 115 - Dolly Parton
Another 115 Bite the Dust - Queen
!!5 Days a Week - The Beatles encore

Little (1)15 - Depeche Mode.

 

[cheekybids]

I think the PL has tried to allow a typically hostile investigation and then piece of serious litigation to sit side by side with the day to day business of dealing with a shareholder and competition member. The PLs office has images of City’s success all over - pictures of the title wins, Haaland, the trophy with blue ribbons. All this sits side by side with the PL trying to wear its regulators hat. Every investigation is hostile as is every piece of litigation.

The reality is that if the PL win, their hostility is justified. If not, it will be seen as a circus. Again this is like most Serious Fraud Office and other regulatory cases.

It’s hostile because they leaked & went completely over the top with the amount of charges. It wasn’t a case of trying to get to the truth & if they had a semblance of competence we give them credit for they will have known it would be years before it could be resolved.

None of this has appeared joined up & I’ll say it again it would not have happened in the same way for other clubs.

 

[1961_vintage]

Also, I don't see how the Prem "win".

This has been obvious to me from the outset.

The Prem operates in absolute servitude to the demands of the red cartel. If the cartel are happy, The Prem is happy.

The core purpose of owning City was, in the eyes of the Prem and the cartel, as a PR and promotional vehicle for the UAE.

By publicly associating City (and therefore the UAE) with cheating and corruption, this effectively undermines that purpose, City's ownership by ADUG fails, Sheikh Mansour pulls out, and the threat to the cartel dominance is removed.

Naive, ignorant, arrogant and foolhardy. But no surprise given the likes of Levy pulling the strings and Masters dancing to their tune.

 

[cheekybids]

I understand that the very nature of any actionable charges is thought to be hostile, but I still believe there are levels to this and that the Prem hasn't done anything to keep the "hostilities" to a somewhat lesser degree. In fact, I could argue they've done the opposite, an example being the way the charges were put into the public's domain. They were put out to cause maximum effect (while even doing a quite sloppy job of it).

Being that we both agree if City were to be essentially cleared it would be deemed a circus why would the Prem put themselves in such a position. I don't see the risk/reward from a rational business standpoint. I believe the Prem could have proceeded with their investigation and subsequent charges without basically instigating a public bloodbath. That's just my opinion.

Also, I don't see how the Prem "win". We are either cleared and it all looks like what some of us believe or we are found in violation and ruined leaving the Prem to explain how a club was able to reach a dominant status in their league over a period extending well beyond a decade only to have been in breach of a slew of serious rules over the same extended period of time. I don't see how that would strengthen the league's position of being some kind of effective self regulator. For me it further highlights their ineptitude and raises the need for someone independent to regulate what goes on.

We're not talking about a 2 or 3 year window. We're saying the Prem has been a sham for the better part of 15 years so everyone please disregard everything that's gone on since about 2009.

At best we've done nothing wrong. At worst we gamed some "man made" rules 5 to 15 years ago. The smart play by the Prem in either situation was to move on. We're not talking a criminal case here, a murder, a violent assault. Tighten up your rules fellas and keep a keener eye. I'm not saying this as a die hard supporter even. It's just simple pros and cons. I don't see any world where City being destroyed as we know them and having over a dozen years of league play tarnished and invalidated would signify a win for the league. I see it as an unmitigated disaster for all involved thus my reference to this being a circus complete with tents, clowns, jugglers, a barker, the whole thing...

The only possible explanation for the coordinated 115 PR assault was to cosy up with members considered a better class of members. If it’s not just Masters there needs to be an investigation into how the whole shit show was coordinated, who was lobbying & who was being rewarded.

Lots of questions for an investigative reporter.

 

[FanchesterCity]

The only possible explanation for the coordinated 115 PR assault was to cosy up with members considered a better class of members. If it’s not just Masters there needs to be an investigation into how the whole shit show was coordinated, who was lobbying & who was being rewarded.

Lots of questions for an investigative reporter.

I vaguely remember an attempt by some PL members to instigate a voting system where some clubs had a larger number of votes than others. Democracy for ya.

 

[cheekybids]

I’ve said this before but when we win they need to a count down on the big screen with not guilty at the end, it will probably get the biggest cheer this season.

They should invite nostrils Harris to discuss the charges & the outcome on sky in the centre circle before the game like the cunts did when they were announced.

 

[deano ou812]

The only possible explanation for the coordinated 115 PR assault was to cosy up with members considered a better class of members. If it’s not just Masters there needs to be an investigation into how the whole shit show was coordinated, who was lobbying & who was being rewarded.

Lots of questions for an investigative reporter.

Yip,yet no investigative journalist has went near this I wonder why ..