PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Prestwich_Blue]

You have to have good grounds to launch an investigation, is my understanding. Unless there's another Der Spiegel-type article about the financial dealings of another club, there are no grounds.

Having said that though, any club whose owners' accounts are filed in a tax haven should definitely be investigated. Any responsible regulator would want to know about any debt not declared via publicly filed accounts, in order to ensure that the club was at no risk should something happen.

Just to add to this issue of offshore funding, when we bought Sergio from Atletico, the agreement involved payment in instalments. I think it was something like one-third down upfront and the balance over two years.

Atletico did what many other clubs do, and 'sold' the future instalments in exchange for a one-off payment. That payment came from an offshore trust and the PL would not register the transfer until they had clarity over the actual source of the funds. This is standard in Anti-Money Laundering processes (unless you're Standard Chartered of course).

There was a bit of a stand-off though, as one of the points of an offshore trust can be to hide beneficial ownership. Eventually it was revealed that it was the owner of what was described as "an eponymous chain of bookmakers". I hazarded a guess it was Fred Done but I think the proceeds of the trust came from a sale of the chain, and I think him and Peter still own their shops.

It doesn't matter who the individual is though. The point is that the PL were not prepared to register the transfer due to unattributed offshore funds being involved. And they were able to get the information they wanted, despite the presumed secrecy of an offshore trust.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

Just to add to this issue of offshore funding, when we bought Sergio from Atletico, the agreement involved payment in instalments. I think it was something like one-third down upfront and the balance over two years.

Atletico did what many other clubs do, and 'sold' the future instalments in exchange for a one-off payment. That payment came from an offshore trust and the PL would not register the transfer until they had clarity over the actual source of the funds. This is standard in Anti-Money Laundering processes (unless you're Standard Chartered of course).

There was a bit of a stand-off though, as one of the points of an offshore trust can be to hide beneficial ownership. Eventually it was revealed that it was the owner of what was described as "an eponymous chain of bookmakers". I hazarded a guess it was Fred Done but I think the proceeds of the trust came from a sale of the chain, and I think him and Peter still own their shops.

It doesn't matter who the individual is though. The point is that the PL were not prepared to register the transfer due to unattributed offshore funds being involved. And they were able to get the information they wanted, despite the presumed secrecy of an offshore trust.

Predominately UK-based bookies?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Why on earth are some clubs allowed to file in a tax haven?!! If they belong to an English PL that seems to have its own rules (legal or not) then all accounts should be filed here

They do file accounts in the UK. There are at least 7 companies registered at Companies House, including Manchester United Football Club and Manchester United Limited, along with 5 companies set up when the Glazers took over (all starting with Red Football). So you can see any filings for those, including accounts.

But what we don't know is if anything is hidden in the Cayman Islands, or even in Delaware. The PL shouldn't issue the 'golden share' or whatever, which confers official PL membership, until it's had sight of these companies. Otherwise how can they be sure there's no money laundering or other dubious legal or financial activity (e.g. disguised ownership)?

 

[CC1]

They do file accounts in the UK. There are at least 7 companies registered at Companies House, including Manchester United Football Club and Manchester United Limited, along with 5 companies set up when the Glazers took over (all starting with Red Football). So you can see any filings for those, including accounts.

But what we don't know is if anything is hidden in the Cayman Islands, or even in Delaware. The PL shouldn't issue the 'golden share' or whatever, which confers official PL membership, until it's had sight of these companies. Otherwise how can they be sure there's no money laundering or other dubious legal or financial activity (e.g. disguised ownership)?

Exactly - but it’s the usual acceptance for certain clubs. Imagine if we had been doing that ….

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Predominately UK-based bookies?

That's what it said iirc. An eponymous chain of high street bookies. But I also recall the article said the money was the process of a sale of the chain.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Exactly - but it’s the usual acceptance for certain clubs. Imagine if we had been doing that ….

Well there's ADUG/Newton Investments, which are Abu Dhabi-based.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

That would keep them Bizet

Puns like that Strauss me out!

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

That's what it said iirc. An eponymous chain of high street bookies. But I also recall the article said the money was the process of a sale of the chain.

I know PP have been buying up a lot of smaller chains

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Puns like that Strauss me out!

You’re both Baching mad!

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

The narrative of our enemies has changed from “City and their Arab owners are cheats who must be relegated” to “ Their finances are too complex to understand. They must have something to hide.” Smells like good news to me.

That’s my take on it. Journos who have invested years into this need to start to save face now. If we are cleared it will be “it was all too complex to prove but something dodgy was going on” innuendo. City need to sue someone post judgement to put a marker down

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You’re both Baching mad!

He can’t Handel the truth.

 

[CC1]

Well there's ADUG/Newton Investments, which are Abu Dhabi-based.

Good. Let’s use the system :-)

 

[CC1]

That’s my take on it. Journos who have invested years into this need to start to save face now. If we are cleared it will be “it was all too complex to prove but something dodgy was going on” innuendo. City need to sue someone post judgement to put a marker down

You know, I don’t give a toss what everyone might think if - & hopefully when - we’re cleared.

I’m just going to enjoy their hurt & suffering in view of all they have put us fans & the Club through

 

[slbsn]

Exactly - but it’s the usual acceptance for certain clubs. Imagine if we had been doing that ….

Honestly, I don’t know why you do this to yourselves. United haven’t had shareholder money for more than a decade aside from Ratcliffe which would have been checked by English lawyers. All of the money has been loans from well established institutions. There is no story here.

 

[CC1]

Honestly, I don’t know why you do this to yourselves. United haven’t had shareholder money for more than a decade aside from Ratcliffe which would have been checked by English lawyers. All of the money has been loans from well established institutions. There is no story here.

Yeah. Guess you’re right but it’s hard to trust a club that raves about an upcoming summer tour that’s going to take in a whole £8m when they successfully had millions more written off their accounts for a summer tour that’s had to be cancelled because of Covid restrictions - thus scraping through FFP

 

[Chappie]

He can’t Handel the truth.

Probably because he's Brahms and Listz

 

[slbsn]

Yeah. Guess you’re right but it’s hard to trust a club that raves about an upcoming summer tour that’s going to take in a whole £8m when they successfully had millions more written off their accounts for a summer tour that’s had to be cancelled because of Covid restrictions - thus scraping through FFP

I think it’s a different point. United convinced the PL as to £40m of Covid costs via an audited statement. Whilst i struggle to see how they got £40m, I don’t think it’s case of hiding things - it’s a case of convincing the PL and making specific representations. It will have reconciled to their audited numbers as it was extracted from them.

 

[give it to gordon]

I think it’s a different point. United convinced the PL as to £40m of Covid costs via an audited statement. Whilst i struggle to see how they got £40m, I don’t think it’s case of hiding things - it’s a case of convincing the PL and making specific representations. It will have reconciled to their audited numbers as it was extracted from them.

I guess utd didnt need to hide anything as they put Masters in his job and he is just doing what those people want.

 

[Norbiton]

Probably because he's Brahms and Listz

I give up, on a Haydn to nothing.

 

[johnnytapia]

Just to add to this issue of offshore funding, when we bought Sergio from Atletico, the agreement involved payment in instalments. I think it was something like one-third down upfront and the balance over two years.

Atletico did what many other clubs do, and 'sold' the future instalments in exchange for a one-off payment. That payment came from an offshore trust and the PL would not register the transfer until they had clarity over the actual source of the funds. This is standard in Anti-Money Laundering processes (unless you're Standard Chartered of course).

There was a bit of a stand-off though, as one of the points of an offshore trust can be to hide beneficial ownership. Eventually it was revealed that it was the owner of what was described as "an eponymous chain of bookmakers". I hazarded a guess it was Fred Done but I think the proceeds of the trust came from a sale of the chain, and I think him and Peter still own their shops.

It doesn't matter who the individual is though. The point is that the PL were not prepared to register the transfer due to unattributed offshore funds being involved. And they were able to get the information they wanted, despite the presumed secrecy of an offshore trust.

Fred Done was always paying out on Serge.