VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

Bluearmy said:
Well it was used at the last world cup 2 years ago and in the Champions League since and don't remember any controversy. Why the PL decided to ignore this system completely is frankly bizarre!!
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Anything that speeds things up and standardises things is ok with me....but understanding how accurate it is would surely be the first question?
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
Anything that speeds things up and standardises things is ok with me....but understanding how accurate it is would surely be the first question?
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It takes out the human element of selecting the frame used for ball release and for drawing lines which you would think would remove errors, but the system still works on 50 fps and so at speed there will still be a margin for error.

They claim they can interpolate the timing of ball release and player position from two inconclusive frames but I very much doubt the first and can say there are so many variables involved with the second that it will be impossible (tbf to FIFA, nit UEFA, the inertia sensor used is 500 fps I think to "solve" the first but it doesn't help with the second). Still they will have nice reconstituted graphics which they hope will convince football fans the system is accurate. I'm not buying it.

I also have questions about the player data collection. I thought the system constantly collected 29 data points individually for each player, so they can place players' position "exactly" at any time. The balls-up in Holland blew that theory out of the water, when they placed the defenders leg on the attackers body and said he was offside.

What they are hoping is that people will see the nice graphics and assume the system is accurate. Don't fall for it.
 
halfcenturyup said:
It takes out the human element of selecting the frame used for ball release and for drawing lines which you would think would remove errors, but the system still works on 50 fps and so at speed there will still be a margin for error.

They claim they can interpolate the timing of ball release and player position from two inconclusive frames but I very much doubt the first and can say there are so many variables involved with the second that it will be impossible (tbf to FIFA, nit UEFA, the inertia sensor used is 500 fps I think to "solve" the first but it doesn't help with the second). Still they will have nice reconstituted graphics which they hope will convince football fans the system is accurate. I'm not buying it.

I also have questions about the player data collection. I thought the system constantly collected 29 data points individually for each player, so they can place players' position "exactly" at any time. The balls-up in Holland blew that theory out of the water, when they placed the defenders leg on the attackers body and said he was offside.

What they are hoping is that people will see the nice graphics and assume the system is accurate. Don't fall for it.
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Got to say that is always my instinct when the margin for error data isn’t transparent
 
stonerblue said:
What the fuck is the game coming to when fans think stopping to watch cartoons or some bloke with his finger in his ear telling the crowd why he's given a decision will be an 'improvement'?
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And it really needs to be treated with more of a sense of urgency from the fans and all involved with the sport. They've really stepped in it with VAR and the announcement to add on to it with referee speeches as a "test run" in its own tournament. And then on the other side of the coin we have to hear about how semi-automated didn't make it in because they needed more time to do thorough testing before implementing as if that's supposed to be reassuring while they just make all kinds of changes to VAR mid-season with unsatisfactory results. While I understand some fans desire to have referees make better decisions, on the other hand I do believe they've been sold on VAR and have chosen to go down that rabbit hole wherever it may lead. But many fans all over the world know this whole ordeal is wrong and would like to see football returned to normal in any way possible. If that means transitioning to a challenge system, if that's what it takes, I'm all for it, just to get us away from VAR and take a new approach. Becuase, lets face it, this whole VAR experiment has not been successful, it has not been embraced by the fans but fans have no choice but to tolerate it despite their objection to it. But therein lies the problem, the fans really do have the power as they are the paying customer. But up to this point the fans love of football is more than their dislike of VAR, but it's reaching a breaking point. Even FIFA by now I think realizes that VAR is not going the way they would like, which is why they are brainstorming a challenge system. I am merely trying to help the FIFA guys behind VAR save their legacy and am throwing them a life ring with a challenge system, as an "Off-Ramp" for their failed system of VAR. What I would say to the FIFA guys is, look, we tried VAR, for year after year after year and we're looking for something better for football. If a challenge system is what you need to cement your legacy then by all means but have the decency to admit VAR didn't work and just move on to something better. The fans will appreciate if you replace VAR with something better. And to the Premier League higher ups, Webb and the like I would say, look, we get it, the FIFA guys were spoon feeding you VAR and you said OK we'll use it but only if we do it our way.

But look, water under the Bridge, but do the right thing now. Please, for football. We really can't continue with VAR any longer. I don't know about you guys but with VAR it feels like we're being pushed down a rabbit hole against our will and I'm actually trying to escape it and look for solutions. But to your point, when you have people trying to drag us down this VAR rabbit hole with an embracing of referee speeches to explain VAR decisions, if I wanted to hear referees talk to me I would watch the American NFL, but that also has tons of problems maybe even more problems than football, but the point is, we are falling deeper down this hole and I really want to come out of the VAR way of doing things and just really get football back to normal. What happened last season was Wolves was incredible (not good incredible) when all the clubs voted for VAR to stay. That decision and how unanimously against Wolves it was really hit the fans hard. Because the fans had hope that it would be a close vote. But the iron boot of the Premier League higher ups really schemed behind the scenes to ensure Wolves were soundly defeated. But Wolves has earned a place in all fans hearts due to their standing up for traditional football. They will always be remembered for that courage, but it is time that the VAR charade starts to wind down as we look to replace. Grass roots football must return, and more of that as well, but or now it doesn't instill confidence what taht vote against Wolves for VAR to stay did. And now FIFA is looking at a challenge system. Well there is your off ramp FIFA, and the Premier League higher ups Webbs of the world you must not take use deeper into this dark dark cave of VAR and more VAR. VAR has had enough time to prove itself and show us what it is and we know what it is and we don't like it, now maybe a challenge system would be easier to embrace than VAR as long as it is very limited in its uses but broad in the scope of what you can challenge and really just do it right this time. The desire to return football to normal should be at the forefront and with a viable alternative there needs to be a concerted effect to put VAR out to pasture once and for all and really usher in a new age of football enlightenment out of the obscurity and confusion of the VAR era.
 
Earlier in the topic there was discussion of a judging system for the challenge system. 3 judges would be appointed to decide on challenge decisions. The judges could vote to uphold the on field decision, to reverse the decision or they could vote undecided. An undecided vote is a vote to stay with the on field decision after consulting with the video footage. For a reversal to be successful, there would need to be a majority of the judges voting to reverse the on field decision. A challenging manager would need 2 of the 3 judges to vote in favor of a reversal to reverse the decision, otherwise the on field decision would stand. If two judges are split and the other judge votes undecided then the on field decision would stay. But in that case perhaps there could be a reward for the challenging manager who had his challenge drawn 1-1-1, perhaps that result could earn him an additional challenging opportunity.

So under this system each video challenge review would be judged by 3 judges, not by the on field referee. Just as in boxing you could have a referee be one of the 3 judges or it could be 3 separate judges. 3 separate judges would be ideal since it would be an appeal against the referee's decision, reviews could be an opportunity for on-field referees to rest, rather than having scrutiny increased in having to deal with a video review. I have outlined the way I would design such a system, but if you disagree with some of my system or if you have your own ideas make your case for how you would design a challenge system and why.
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
Earlier in the topic there was discussion of a judging system for the challenge system. 3 judges would be appointed to decide on challenge decisions. The judges could vote to uphold the on field decision, to reverse the decision or they could vote undecided. An undecided vote is a vote to stay with the on field decision after consulting with the video footage. For a reversal to be successful, there would need to be a majority of the judges voting to reverse the on field decision. A challenging manager would need 2 of the 3 judges to vote in favor of a reversal to reverse the decision, otherwise the on field decision would stand. If two judges are split and the other judge votes undecided then the on field decision would stay. But in that case perhaps there could be a reward for the challenging manager who had his challenge drawn 1-1-1, perhaps that result could earn him an additional challenging opportunity.

So under this system each video challenge review would be judged by 3 judges, not by the on field referee. Just as in boxing you could have a referee be one of the 3 judges or it could be 3 separate judges. 3 separate judges would be ideal since it would be an appeal against the referee's decision, reviews could be an opportunity for on-field referees to rest, rather than having scrutiny increased in having to deal with a video review. I have outlined the way I would design such a system, but if you disagree with some of my system or if you have your own ideas make your case for how you would design a challenge system and why.
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Or we could just let Sky make the calls like they do now.
 
What a suprise, fans demand more transparency, fans demand they want to know what the official rules a decision for and hear it through the tannoy for fans.

Now they get it , fans say they don’t want it in the game.
 
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BlueHammer85 said:
What a suprise, fans demand more transparency, fans demand they want to know what the official rules a decision for and hear it through the tannoy for fans.

Now they get it , fans say they don’t want it in the game.
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And yet in November I was at a referees meeting which Andy Madley attended. He confirmed that PGMOL were against decisions being relayed to the crowd
 
richardtheref said:
And yet in November I was at a referees meeting which Andy Madley attended. He confirmed that PGMOL were against decisions being relayed to the crowd
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Yes because it looks and sounds shit, i don't want a ref relaying the decision through a tannoy, i can pretty much work out 99% of time why they are checking a decision, whether its offside or for a penalty.

Just we had endless pages saying we need more transparency and how much better it would be if a ref announced decision through tannoy. It isn't. its shite.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Yes because it looks and sounds shit, i don't want a ref relaying the decision through a tannoy, i can pretty much work out 99% of time why they are checking a decision, whether its offside or for a penalty.

Just we had endless pages saying we need more transparency and how much better it would be if a ref announced decision through tannoy. It isn't. its shite.
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Tannoy ?
Blame Mr. Banks....
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Yes because it looks and sounds shit, i don't want a ref relaying the decision through a tannoy, i can pretty much work out 99% of time why they are checking a decision, whether its offside or for a penalty.

Just we had endless pages saying we need more transparency and how much better it would be if a ref announced decision through tannoy. It isn't. its shite.
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So what is the best outcome
 
Hes the left back remember said:
So what is the best outcome
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I like how they're doing it this season, leaving it to the refs unless there is something that a ref has missed that should be deemed a penalty/red card etc and he gets to have a check on the monitor.

we don't need officials announcing decisions through the speakers - but so many fans demand constant transparency then moan when they get the transparency.
 
roach3 said:
What has happened to the game we all loved
Micro managing and dissecting almost everything. The game as we knew it has gone full woke.
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err no, quite the opposite this season. VAR are leaving it to the refs decision and only involved in case of a big error.
using 'woke' for this doesn't make sense by the way.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Yes because it looks and sounds shit, i don't want a ref relaying the decision through a tannoy, i can pretty much work out 99% of time why they are checking a decision, whether its offside or for a penalty.

Just we had endless pages saying we need more transparency and how much better it would be if a ref announced decision through tannoy. It isn't. its shite.
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I dunno.

At least one ref will sound like a 12 year old girl and we'll be laughing when they tell us the decision.

I'd like to see UEFA being it in. I reckon that Polish ref would sound scary as fuck.

"VAR.Ederson Offside*.No Goal.Free Kick. Real Madrid"


*Neglecting the fact Eddie scored from his own pass to Erling from his area.
 
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