Pep Guardiola - 2024/25

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sir baconface said:
You must have a degree in selective reading.

He’s been highly instrumental in making the stars align. And also in creating an exhilarating style copied by many. And also won a zillion trophies. No denying any of that.

My argument - as you well know - is that times have changed. The world has caught up. Managers with a fraction of his budget now expose him almost every week and so far he’s had no answers. He’s let the squad deteriorate to a level where serious surgery is required. They look slow, dispirited, predictable, poorly organised and prone to collapse. It’s a first for him.

Everyone runs out of steam eventually.
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He's had a bad run for the first time in 16 years and you're writing him off.

That is foolish.
 
sir baconface said:
You must have a degree in selective reading.

He’s been highly instrumental in making the stars align. And also in creating an exhilarating style copied by many. And also won a zillion trophies. No denying any of that.

My argument - as you well know - is that times have changed. The world has caught up. Managers with a fraction of his budget now expose him almost every week and so far he’s had no answers. He’s let the squad deteriorate to a level where serious surgery is required. They look slow, dispirited, predictable, poorly organised and prone to collapse. It’s a first for him.

Everyone runs out of steam eventually.
Click to expand...

I think you are mistaking our players being found out rather than Pep’s tactics

We are in a very similar position to 16/17 & 19/20

In 16/17 we had numerous players coming to the end of their time and the squad needed fresh blood and the average age lowering. We still had a core group that could be built around

In 19/20 we also had a few legends coming to the end and we’d also come off the back of a very grueling season

In 24/25 it’s a mix of both of the above , we’ve still got some world class players to build around and need some younger blood with hunger to take us forward again

This time next season we’ll be glad we backed a sure thing again
 
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Brewster's millions said:
I watched an episode of that Amazon documentary on our 17/18 season the other day. If anyone has access to it on Prime, it’s well worth a watch to help judge where we are at the moment.

I know we were arguably in our pomp then, even if we failed to land the CL, but the difference in the speed of our play and the general fitness of the players between then and now is absolutely startling.

People tend to concentrate on the pace of Sterling and Sane in that side, but the speed and strength of running of the whole team was miles ahead of where we are now. Particularly notable was how much slimmer De Bruyne was back then - he must be a good stone, maybe even two stone heavier now.

Personally I think that a good chunk of our current problems simply relate to a lack of fitness, given our tendency to collapse in the second half. I’d love to know how much actual running and fitness work we do in training, because we simply haven’t looked fit at any stage of this season.
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But how realistic is it to maintain that intensity, after many seasons, going deep in every competition (and international tournaments for most players)? I am not remotely surprised they are not fit. They are knackered.
 
Macca77macca said:
But how realistic is it to maintain that intensity, after many seasons, going deep in every competition (and international tournaments for most players)? I am not remotely surprised they are not fit. They are knackered.
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I can understand why players like De Bruyne would be fatigued and why their intensity drops as a result, but even some of the players who have joined in the past couple of seasons seem to lack fitness compared to rival teams.

Kovacic for example always seems to be breathing out of his arse after an hour or so, and I doubt he’s played more football than other top players over the past few years.

We just seem to dismiss the idea of competing physically with sides these days. Guardiola’s answer seems to be that we should just play more passes, which I think just increases our vulnerability to counter attacks.

I would hope given what’s happened this season and with Viana coming in that they’ll be a thorough review of our injury and fitness record in the summer, because we can’t afford to put ourselves at such a disadvantage in terms of fitness levels if we want to get back on top.
 
Macca77macca said:
But how realistic is it to maintain that intensity, after many seasons, going deep in every competition (and international tournaments for most players)? I am not remotely surprised they are not fit. They are knackered.
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I agree they're knackered, Silva is an absolute example of this. But any type of refresh in the last couple of years has been a huge fail cause we've bought shit midfielders. Hopefully Gonzales and another in the summer rectify this
 
Bluewonder said:
He's had a bad run for the first time in 16 years and you're writing him off.

That is foolish.
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Why don’t you fkn read?

Saying he’s currently doing badly isn’t the same as writing him off.

I’m still hoping he can turn things round, even though the signs aren’t good. Why? Because, as already stated, so much has changed and he has yet to adjust. Why not show me how he’s adapting instead of making shit up?
 
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sir baconface said:
Why don’t you fkn read?

Saying he’s currently doing badly isn’t the same as writing him off.

I’m still hoping he can turn things round, even though the signs aren’t good. Why? Because, as already stated, so much has changed and he has yet to adjust. Why not show me how he’s adapting instead of making shit up?
Click to expand...

The Chelsea win with the different formation gave me cause for optimism.

I also think it's fair to say the standard of the squad and the form of certain players has dropped significantly and that's not all on Pep alone. Just as when we won a lot of things came together to win the treble, a lot of things have unravelled now.

Finally I think the fact he might be struggling needs to be put in the context of his marriage ending after decades together. I would rather stick with Pep for another 2.5 seasons with the form as it is than see him walk. Nobody does it better and we will never have it as good again as we have under him. Nobody ever has.
 
I wonder how Pep will set us up in the big games for the rest of the season. Personally, I'm hoping that we drop a midfielder to the back to help with build up and get width from the FBs - inverting the wingers and being more compact in the middle. The goals against Chelsea were aided by their high line/m2m, but after the initial wobbles, we managed to mitigate their midfield for most of the game by being compact.

When we play Liverpool, I wouldn’t even mind trying something like what Newcastle did against Arsenal
 
Brewster's millions said:
I can understand why players like De Bruyne would be fatigued and why their intensity drops as a result, but even some of the players who have joined in the past couple of seasons seem to lack fitness compared to rival teams.

Kovacic for example always seems to be breathing out of his arse after an hour or so, and I doubt he’s played more football than other top players over the past few years.

We just seem to dismiss the idea of competing physically with sides these days. Guardiola’s answer seems to be that we should just play more passes, which I think just increases our vulnerability to counter attacks.

I would hope given what’s happened this season and with Viana coming in that they’ll be a thorough review of our injury and fitness record in the summer, because we can’t afford to put ourselves at such a disadvantage in terms of fitness levels if we want to get back on top.
Click to expand...
Totally agree on our fitness levels, they've been so poor this season and like you say even the ones who haven't played a great deal seem to be struggling. Fitness is only part of the problem though unfortunately, love to know what else has happened
 
sir baconface said:
Why don’t you fkn read?

Saying he’s currently doing badly isn’t the same as writing him off.

I’m still hoping he can turn things round, even though the signs aren’t good. Why? Because, as already stated, so much has changed and he has yet to adjust. Why not show me how he’s adapting instead of making shit up?
Click to expand...

You said:

"Times have changed"
"The world has caught up"
"Everyone runs out of steam eventually"

I can fkn read and you're writing him off.
 
sir baconface said:
Why don’t you fkn read?

Saying he’s currently doing badly isn’t the same as writing him off.

I’m still hoping he can turn things round, even though the signs aren’t good. Why? Because, as already stated, so much has changed and he has yet to adjust. Why not show me how he’s adapting instead of making shit up?
Click to expand...

We won the Treble 20 months ago, and 4 in a row 9 months ago. Just 5 months ago we were unbeaten in the CL for 26 games, which is an all-time record in Europe.

You seem to imply that football has changed so much over the last year or two that Pep might struggle to get back to the top. That might be the case, who knows?, but it looks like jumping to conclusions.

Our current problems have more to do with injuries, fatigue, and some players getting oldish than with Pep's tactics being surpassed by new developments.

Imo, the likely outcome is that Pep builds another great team over the next 2 seasons. Let's see what happens.
 
Dobsy said:
The Chelsea win with the different formation gave me cause for optimism.

I also think it's fair to say the standard of the squad and the form of certain players has dropped significantly and that's not all on Pep alone. Just as when we won a lot of things came together to win the treble, a lot of things have unravelled now.

Finally I think the fact he might be struggling needs to be put in the context of his marriage ending after decades together. I would rather stick with Pep for another 2.5 seasons with the form as it is than see him walk. Nobody does it better and we will never have it as good again as we have under him. Nobody ever has.
Click to expand...

Thanks for a reasoned response.

Was Chelsea a real change of tactics or an opportunist response by the players to their suicidal high line and sloppy defending? Ironically, we exploited it the same way as many have cut through ours. Whatever, Arsenal brought us back down to Earth with a bump.

Fair comments about Pep’s private life possibly having a bearing.
 
Brewster's millions said:
I watched an episode of that Amazon documentary on our 17/18 season the other day. If anyone has access to it on Prime, it’s well worth a watch to help judge where we are at the moment.

I know we were arguably in our pomp then, even if we failed to land the CL, but the difference in the speed of our play and the general fitness of the players between then and now is absolutely startling.

People tend to concentrate on the pace of Sterling and Sane in that side, but the speed and strength of running of the whole team was miles ahead of where we are now. Particularly notable was how much slimmer De Bruyne was back then - he must be a good stone, maybe even two stone heavier now.

Personally I think that a good chunk of our current problems simply relate to a lack of fitness, given our tendency to collapse in the second half. I’d love to know how much actual running and fitness work we do in training, because we simply haven’t looked fit at any stage of this season.
Click to expand...
I actually can't bear to watch it anymore, or the Treble documentary. I have experienced real life grief on more than occasion, and I know it sounds very extreme, but the emotions I feel when I see those 'old Pep' teams is akin to a very strong feeling of loss.

I do have a life, but my beloved Blues are a huge part of it. They 'ruined' my life in summer 1983, and I felt very empty for a good few months after that Champs League final loss in 2021. I won't ever forgive Pep for that one, even though I 'love' him.
 
sir baconface said:
Thanks for a reasoned response.

Was Chelsea a real change of tactics or an opportunist response by the players to their suicidal high line and sloppy defending? Ironically, we exploited it the same way as many have cut through ours. Whatever, Arsenal brought us back down to Earth with a bump.

Fair comments about Pep’s private life possibly having a bearing.
Click to expand...
The marriage break up after so long, whatever the reasons are going to have a huge mental and physical impact on Pep. I've been there decades ago and it takes time and affects all aspects of every day life for months- even if it was a wanted/ unwanted parting of ways.
 
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