Russian invasion of Ukraine

JASR said:
not wanting to derail the thread, but the brexiteers of my age (40-60) that I know of, are right behind Trump no matter what, and are against Ukraine having any support. Therefore they really arent for a european military collective...as it misses out Ukraine, a european country, and basically throws them away to Russia...which then leads inevitably with Putin's ways (take, take and take again), to Moldova, the Baltic's and then eyeing up Poland, to join the Kalingrad enclave directly to mother Russia. I find it bizarre, disingenuous and downright fictional that anyone could believe that Russia would stop with whatever part of Ukraine Trump unilaterally gives away, a la Sudetenland/Czech nation.
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Ive not noticed that at all. All the ones ive spoken to think Trumps a dick but has got a point about nations not spending enough on arms.Take for instance France has just started to pay 2% and Germany will take a few more years to achieve this..
 
JASR said:
not wanting to derail the thread, but the brexiteers of my age (40-60) that I know of, are right behind Trump no matter what, and are against Ukraine having any support. Therefore they really arent for a european military collective...as it misses out Ukraine, a european country, and basically throws them away to Russia...which then leads inevitably with Putin's ways (take, take and take again), to Moldova, the Baltic's and then eyeing up Poland, to join the Kalingrad enclave directly to mother Russia. I find it bizarre, disingenuous and downright fictional that anyone could believe that Russia would stop with whatever part of Ukraine Trump unilaterally gives away, a la Sudetenland/Czech nation.
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A number of them were likely influenced to vote for Brexit by all the Russian-produced disinformation on social media in the run up.
Trump was/is pro-Brexit, so was/is Putin.
 
City Hobgoblin said:
A number of them were likely influenced to vote for Brexit by all the Russian-produced disinformation on social media in the run up.
Trump was/is pro-Brexit, so was/is Putin.
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The EU's desire for a Federal State and continual advancement towards this goal is the ONLY reason Brexit was successful.
Even half of Remain voters were concerned about it. To think anything else is just Remain posturing.
Putin's misinformation campaign had an incredibly small effect on the outcome.
That's the last on this subject on this thread.
Oh, and I voted to Remain before you start.
 
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BlueAnorak said:
Fucking Shameful.
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We need to accept to the new reality:

1) The new US regime is populated by shameful individuals

2) They are ideologically in support of Putin and against western democracy.

They're not going to suddenly start doing the right thing. Quite the opposite, they're going to single mindedly try to destroy our system of governance for their own aggrandisement and enrichment.
 
BlueAnorak said:
The EU's desire for a Federal State and continual advancement towards this goal is the ONLY reason Brexit was successful.
Even half of Remain voters were concerned about it. To think anything else is just Remain posturing.
Putin's misinformation campaign had an incredibly small effect on the outcome.
That's the last on this subject on this thread.
Oh, and I voted to Remain before you start.
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There is no evidence of the impact to know if it was little or not as the Gov of the time decided to not look for any interference for some reason. the monitoring systems used in the Scottish referendum were turned off.

There is lots of evidence of significant bot farm activity from Russia and Iran though spreading anti EU propaganda. although its a tiny drop in the pond compared the misinformation coming out of them now. purely due to tech moving forward in 9 years making it easier to spam more.
 
The way Trump is acting is very reminiscent of how the second world war started with Hitler. Let's shake on a very successful meeting Vladimir where the only winners are us two. Scary!
 
Ruzzians complain about Ukrainian drones in Kersk that are blowing them away for breakfast. The 155th Kebab Marines are the latest unit to be wiped from the face of the earth. (I call them Kebab Marines because they keep getting reconstituted from new meat on the skewer again and again - I think this is the 4th time in 3 years).
 
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roubaixtuesday said:
Leader of the free world continues to lead the free world

If we, Europeans, fail to spend big on defence now, we will be forced to spend 10 times more if we don’t prevent a wider war.

As the Polish PM I’m entitled to say it loud and clear, since Poland already spends almost 5% of its GDP on defence. And we will continue to do so.

[Tusk]
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Is this not what the US has been saying to the likes of Germany/France/Spain since before Trump? Get your shit together instead of perpetually relying on the US/Poland/Estonia to create the deterrent? The UK is the only big European country that even meets the older 2% NATO guideline.
 
BlueAnorak said:
The EU's desire for a Federal State and continual advancement towards this goal is the ONLY reason Brexit was successful.
Even half of Remain voters were concerned about it. To think anything else is just Remain posturing.
Putin's misinformation campaign had an incredibly small effect on the outcome.
That's the last on this subject on this thread.
Oh, and I voted to Remain before you start.
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The vote was much more akin to an independence vote ,and the feeling that civil servants and second rate politicians were running our country from Brussels, was a prime mover in my opinion.
As for Brexiteers being lead by the nose by foreign interference,as is often claimed , judging by the establishments response ,perhaps it was us remainers that were being led and doing the bidding of establishment ,and the Brexiteers were the ones thinking for themselves.
As for Trump and Americans leaving us to deal with this major crisis ,from their point of view, it is understandable,that they think Europe should look after itself. They have big problems of their own to deal with, paticularly when often all they got was abuse ,and accusations of interference,for naively thinking they could plant democracies all over the world and they would easily flourish.
That itself should be a warning to us all,that democracy and freedom of thought requires constant care.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Not sure what you class as large, but according to this, Germany France and Poland do. Maybe other analysis says different.

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Poland was referenced in my original post as a country that spends sufficiently. France and Germany might meet 2% this year, we're still working with estimates, but if they do they will barely clear that bar, which was set in 2014 and is probably too low for the current situation.

The fact that Poland and Estonia are willing to spend so much while rich countries like Germany and France maybe meet the guidelines, and countries like Italy Canada and Belgium are nowhere near the guidelines, illustrates the problem. Everybody needs to pull their weight.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Not sure what you class as large, but according to this, Germany France and Poland do. Maybe other analysis says different.

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It's no secret that many unrelated costs are being cheated into the pot to somehow achieve 2% GDP - but today isn't the time anymore for games.

The point is to calculate what we NEED to defend Ukraine and Europe in terms of man power, weapons and logistics. Whatever %age comes out bottom line. As simple as that, and I feel it's being understood right now.

Every country has to discuss what and how they can achieve on a financial and political scale. And then get to work ffs.
 
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