Russian invasion of Ukraine

[robbieh]

I have read that after the Bolshevik revolution what the West was most afraid of was Germany teaming up with Russia. At that time Germany post WW1 had a growing socialist movement. The west thought that the combination of German knowhow and Russian manpower would make this a real challenge to both the British Empire and also the fast growing US. So we supported the white Russians and the Weimar Republic to avoid this scenario.

In the end we ended up with Hitler. Job done.

 

[Jimmieblue]

Ah, we have now reached the false equivalency stage. They all do it, so they must all be as bad as each other.

OMFG

I happen to believe they are.

 

[Jimmieblue]

I have read that after the Bolshevik revolution what the West was most afraid of was Germany teaming up with Russia. At that time Germany post WW1 had a growing socialist movement. The west thought that the combination of German knowhow and Russian manpower would make this a real challenge to both the British Empire and also the fast growing US. So we supported the white Russians and the Weimar Republic to avoid this scenario.

In the end we ended up with Hitler. Job done.

That’s my understanding too.

 

[cleavers]

Maybe an election would sort it I don’t know how the whole country feels.

I've only read a few of your posts on this subject, my conclusion is that you are absolutely clueless.

Who exactly is voting in this "election" ? All Ukraine ? like those in the occupied bit ? those that have been forced to go to russia ?

What about election interference from russia, how is that going to be stopped ?

What about the war crimes that continue to occur, but especially those in 2022, like the kidnapping of children from occupied territories, the bombing of a theatre full of familes in Mariupal, are these to be erased from history after an election ?

 

[Elbow beards]

I happen to believe they are.

Then you're a fucking idiot.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Hurrah for Norge!

Norwegian fuel supplier refuses U.S. warships over Ukraine

Haltbakk Bunkers will cease supplying fuel to U.S. forces in Norway and American ships docking in Norwegian ports, citing dissatisfaction with recent U.S. policy towards Ukraine.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Interesting.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I happen to believe they are.

Therein lies the fundamental problem.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

I've only read a few of your posts on this subject, my conclusion is that you are absolutely clueless.

Who exactly is voting in this "election" ? All Ukraine ? like those in the occupied bit ? those that have been forced to go to russia ?

What about election interference from russia, how is that going to be stopped ?

What about the war crimes that continue to occur, but especially those in 2022, like the kidnapping of children from occupied territories, the bombing of a theatre full of familes in Mariupal, are these to be erased from history after an election ?

When they apparently had free and fair elections on the oblasts that Russia had illegally entered the locals were told if they didn’t vote a certain way they would be endangering themselves. You have people fighting at the front and many abroad as refugees, there is no way any type of election can happen unless hostilities stop and territory given back.

 

[Jimmieblue]

Therein lies the fundamental problem.

The problem being, as I see it, I don’t agree with you, suck it up.

 

[Jimmieblue]

I've only read a few of your posts on this subject, my conclusion is that you are absolutely clueless.

Who exactly is voting in this "election" ? All Ukraine ? like those in the occupied bit ? those that have been forced to go to russia ?

What about election interference from russia, how is that going to be stopped ?

What about the war crimes that continue to occur, but especially those in 2022, like the kidnapping of children from occupied territories, the bombing of a theatre full of familes in Mariupal, are these to be erased from history after an election ?

Not everyone in Ukraine agrees with Zelensky. We can only wait and see what develops in the next few weeks. This has been a huge disaster for Ukraine, everyone knows that. Honest brokers, if there are any, need to get round a table and it must involve the EU, Ukraine, US and maybe Russia.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I think you’re all talking to a bot. As I said, nobody is this naive.

Saying that, this one was a Johnson acolyte, so …

 

[mosssideblue]

His handlers plan of regime change is top of his wish list as well.

They want a pro Russian leader in who will slowly but surely cede the entirety of Ukraine back into Russia.

Absolutely. Then he can reward Trump with access to some minerals

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

Not everyone in Ukraine agrees with Zelensky. We can only wait and see what develops in the next few weeks. This has been a huge disaster for Ukraine, everyone knows that. Honest brokers, if there are any, need to get round a table and it must involve the EU, Ukraine, US and maybe Russia.

You are just a WUM. Nobody is that naive. Who would get round the table? Who would enforce any agreements? According to you it wouldn’t be the UK as it’s nothing to do with us. Using that logic it’s only Russia and Ukraine around the table. But Russia doesn’t want peace, it wants Ukraine.

So now what do we do?

 

[SWP's back]

Not saying that at all, it’s a whole lot of other things. My two aunts whose 18 year old boyfriends were killed in WW1, who never married and spent their lives as spinsters, all the other young men who’ve sloped off to war at other people’s bidding to come back ruined. War is terrible I don’t believe we are in danger.

So you’d have rather the UK not entered the Second World War?

 

[mosssideblue]

No I don’t remember any of that. I have seen no proof of that. I know Putin is not trustworthy. Let’s face it though, who is in the political sphere.

Sounds like you remember only the things that you want to. Funny that

 

[cleavers]

Not everyone in Ukraine agrees with Zelensky.

Not really sure what that answers from what I asked ?

Nearly 50% of the US don't want trump, how many russians agree with putin ? More than 60% of this country didn't vote for Starmer.

How about you answer any of the questions I asked ? You won't (can't) because you have no understanding of what has actually happened regarding Ukraine.

You probably have no understanding of when this invasion actually even started.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

MSM ‘a MAGA term’ don’t know where you get that from? I know he’s the aggressor. We need a solution without a war.

Not going to happen with Trump as the referee.
He’s bent.

 

[Fat Fairy]

...if you live in the UK, there’s a good chance you’d be speaking German now if Japan hadn’t attacked Pearl Harbor and allied itself with Germany…but the American homeland wasn’t in any danger from Hitler!

That ship had sailed in 1940.

Those young chaps in the RAF got in the way.

And if they'd failed, the RN was chomping at the bit...

(I'm pretty sure the RN has never forgiven the RAF...)

Hitler could no longer threaten GB.

 

[SWP's back]

You should Google “and then they came for me.”

The whole idea of alliances is to provide not only a deterrent against an aggressor, but the strength to stand up and defeat one should they be so bold.

There’s a reason Putin demands that Ukraine not be a NATO member. There’s a reason Zelenskyy wants guarantees from western powers. It’s not because Zelenskyy wants a war!

War is terrible and, if you live in the UK, there’s a good chance you’d be speaking German now if Japan hadn’t attacked Pearl Harbor and allied itself with Germany…but the American homeland wasn’t in any danger from Hitler!

I’ve liked this but your last paragraph is typical of the usual bollocks spouted by Yanks that know nothing of the history of WW2 even if you were born in the UK.

The rest of Europe may have been speaking German but the Nazis never controlled the air and had shelved all invasion plans and kept trying to sue for peace and we’d beaten them in North Africa.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

HERE is some of that false equivalency laid bare…

Remember this guy??? You might not remember him looking like this, though…





He was one of the two main candidates in the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, the other being Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych. (Russian puppet, see below)

During the election campaign in late 2004, Yushchenko became the victim of an assassination attempt when he was poisoned with dioxin. He suffered disfigurement as a result of the poisoning, but survived.




The runoff election in November 2004, won by Yanukovych, was marred by widespread accusations of election fraud, leading to the Orange Revolution and an order by the Ukrainian Supreme Court to repeat the vote. Yushchenko won the revote 52% to 44%.

Yushchenko's influence declined soon after assuming the presidency, as did his and his party's popularity and electoral standing. The rest of his presidency was marked by infighting, legislative deadlock and coalition crises in 2007 and in 2008.

He lost re-election to Yanukovych in the 2010 Ukrainian presidential election.

Yanukovych stood for economic modernisation, greater economic ties with the EU, and military non-alignment. However, his years in power saw what analysts described as democratic backsliding, which included the jailing of opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko, a decline in press freedom and an increase in cronyism and corruption.

In November 2013, Yanukovych suddenly withdrew from signing an association agreement with the EU, amidst economic pressure from Russia.

Ukraine's parliament had overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement. This sparked massive protests against him, known as the Euromaidan. The unrest peaked in February 2014, when almost 100 protesters were killed by government forces. (That doesn’t sound like Russian authoritarianism, does it?!)

So, what next? He flees Ukraine and, according to Russian politician Oleg Mitvol, Yanukovych bought a house in Barvikha for $52 million on 26 February 2014.

On 27 February 2014, a report stated that Yanukovych had asked the authorities of the Russian Federation (Putin) to guarantee his personal security in the territory of Russia, a request that they accepted.

In a June 2015 interview with BBC's Newsnight he thanked Russian President Vladimir Putin for "saving his life".

LATHER, RINSE, REPEAT.