The Labour Government

[inbetween]

£80k to £100k is not less than 2x average UK pay.

Do you know any poor elderly doctors? No. They don't exist. You become a doctor, earn a VERY decent wage in your first few years and then go on to earn much higher wages as you get older. If they become consultants, the sky is the limit. £200k to £300k is typical and £400k in London not unusual.

I don't think anyone has the right to moan about only earning £80k to £100k after 10 years, when they can go on later in that profession to earn a third of a million a year, retire early and have a fabulous pension. Do you? Really?

What other profession pays better than that for people who are not senior managers or directors?

The problem with this statement is you're not conflating it with the equivalents abroad. Take a surgeon, average salary is what £100k? In the US it's treble. In Norway it's double. Other equivalents in Europe are similar but the working conditions are miles better.

If you were a foreign doctor considering where to work then why on earth would you choose to work in the UK? We have shit weather, shit working conditions and generally shit work/lifestyles and you're saying that they earn too much too. I'd look elsewhere if it was me.

Many doctors in the UK are now looking to private work to earn more, it's why your GP doesn't work 5 days a week and the surgery will be staffed with locums who themselves are just paid contractors. The degradation of the NHS dentist contract is why not a single dentist offers NHS appointments anymore, some do it at a token loss but most don't do it at all.

This race to the bottom is precisely why every single thing in the UK is shite, all it ensures is that the government saves money (to then waste elsewhere) and companies make more profit. It has clearly done nothing to help the service level which should be quite obvious.

Imagine if 10 years ago City said well that Pep Guardiola is a bit bloody greedy isn't he so let's get Allardyce instead? Would we be sat on the trophies that we are today? There's no chance. If we want world class institutions and services then investing in the people that provide those services would be a good start. It's not rocket science.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Honestly, I am not remotely surprised by any of this.

I've posted previously about my near neighbour who worked for the NHS for many years doing some management function or other (I never quite understood what but it was liaising with various commitees) and then when there was some restructuring and she decided to leave and get a job in the private sector. She was genuinely shocked at how hard she was expected to work and the stress she was put under. She lasted about 2 years, before quitting and going back to the NHS. Back in the NHS, she had a full time job but was seemingly always on holiday. One year she had 12 weeks holiday! Tbf I think she did this by working some extra days here and there, but even so. She worked from home most of the time. Her demeanor was entirely different. She got free electric bikes to get to the office on the few occasions she actually went in. I got the impression it was a holiday camp. She retired last year, at 60 on a decent pension. She's a lifelong Labour voter, btw.

This is all easily de-bunked by going on to NHS web pages - the NHS does not offer 12 weeks of paid holiday to any of its employees. Employees receive a standard amount of paid annual leave based on their length of service, plus bank holidays. When you start working in the NHS an employee is entitled to 27 days of annual leave plus 8 bank holidays. After five years of service, this increases to 29 days plus bank holidays, and after ten years, it increases to 33 days plus bank holidays. While some employees may be able to purchase additional leave, this is not a standard 12-week entitlement.

The NHS doesn't typically provide free electric bikes to employees for commuting as there would be BiK tax implications. Like any employer it does offer various schemes to make cycling more accessible and affordable. The main option is the Cycle to Work scheme, which allows employees to purchase bikes, including e-bikes, through salary sacrifice, resulting in tax and National Insurance savings. My former employer did this but with poor take up rates in hilly areas where they had sites. Was popular in Peterborough as I recall. Additionally, some NHS trusts and organisations have offered free or subsidised e-bike loans for short periods, especially during specific initiatives or for certain staff groups. This again is standard business practise in larger organisations who - sensibly - seek to improve T&C's in a cost effective way for the business.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Just under 40% do thats not "most". Also its a declining trend as more and more councils are looking to take it in house because despite outsourcing the physical activity of bin collection in law the council retains responsibility for it so if the company doing the work start doing a poor job of it then its the council not the company that is taken to task over it.

Fair enough - I'm out of date. 10+ years ago most of it was outsourced, but I guess they've been bringing it back in house as you say.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The problem with this statement is you're not conflating it with the equivalents abroad. Take a surgeon, average salary is what £100k? In the US it's treble. In Norway it's double. Other equivalents in Europe are similar but the working conditions are miles better.

If you were a foreign doctor considering where to work then why on earth would you choose to work in the UK? We have shit weather, shit working conditions and generally shit work/lifestyles and you're saying that they earn too much too. I'd look elsewhere if it was me.

Many doctors in the UK are now looking to private work to earn more, it's why your GP doesn't work 5 days a week and the surgery will be staffed with locums who themselves are just paid contractors. The degradation of the NHS dentist contract is why not a single dentist offers NHS appointments anymore, some do it at a token loss but most don't do it at all.

This race to the bottom is precisely why every single thing in the UK is shite, all it ensures is that the government saves money (to then waste elsewhere) and companies make more profit. It has clearly done nothing to help the service level which should be quite obvious.

Imagine if 10 years ago City said well that Pep Guardiola is a bit bloody greedy isn't he so let's get Allardyce instead? Would we be sat on the trophies that we are today? There's no chance. If we want world class institutions and services then investing in the people that provide those services would be a good start. It's not rocket science.

I specifically said that I am mixed about it since on the one hand I think they earn plenty but on the other hand we have to balance it with international rates.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This is all easily de-bunked by going on to NHS web pages - the NHS does not offer 12 weeks of paid holiday to any of its employees. Employees receive a standard amount of paid annual leave based on their length of service, plus bank holidays. When you start working in the NHS an employee is entitled to 27 days of annual leave plus 8 bank holidays. After five years of service, this increases to 29 days plus bank holidays, and after ten years, it increases to 33 days plus bank holidays. While some employees may be able to purchase additional leave, this is not a standard 12-week entitlement.

Dear god you are hard work at times. How many weeks is 33 plus 8 (your figures)? 8 weeks. Then I said "Tbf I think she did this by working some extra days here and there". She was on a 4 day x 10 hour flexitime contract and some weeks worked 5 days to build up extra holiday, over and above the 8 weeks. So no, it's not debunked at all. Funny that since I live 2 doors from the woman, and you don't.

Also, she got 2 free bikes.

When I worked 50 hour weeks (like ALWAYS) I didn't get any extra holiday over and above my 4 or 5 weeks standard *(which incentally I rarely took because of the workload). Do you?

Why on earth are you so keen to pretend some people are not on a cushy number? Are you a nurse or something? It's like your on some kind of mission. I cannot believe you took the time to try to research something (that I didn't actually say!!! specifically to try to debunk it. How fucking sad is that.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Dead god you are hard work at times. How many weeks is 33 plus 8 (your figures)? 8 weeks. Then I said "Tbf I think she did this by working some extra days here and there". She was on a 4 day x 10 hour flexitime contract and some weeks worked 5 days to build up extra holiday, over and above the 8 weeks. So no, it's not debunked at all. Funny that since I live 2 doors from the woman, and you don't.

Also, she got 2 free bikes.

When I worked 50 hour weeks (like ALWAYS) I didn't get any extra holiday over and above my 4 or 5 weeks standard *(which incentally I rarely took because of the workload). Do you?

Why on earth are you so keen to pretend some people are not on a cushy number? Are you a nurse or something? It's like your on some kind of mission. I cannot believe you took the time to try to research something (that I didn't actually say!!! specifically to try to debunk it. How fucking sad is that.

the bikes cannot be free - she would have been paying a BiK - What you are pushing is not dissimilar to the "Motability cars are handed out for free" nonsense being pushed by the right. Nobody gets anything for free if you are a PAYE worker

 

[ganganvince]

the bikes cannot be free - she would have been paying a BiK - What you are pushing is not dissimilar to the "Motability cars are handed out for free" nonsense being pushed by the right. Nobody gets anything for free if you are a PAYE worker

Most likely a cycle to work scheme were you lease the bike for a nominal sum taken before tax and ni. Then at the end of the term sign up for another year with no contribution at the end of which you own the bike not free but for a 40% tax payer very discounted.

 

[west didsblue]

Did they promise lower bills?

They’ve lowered the cap so your supplier is taking the piss. Go elsewhere.

 

[west didsblue]

Not in Greater Manchester they don’t.

Which was what I said and I detailed household waste

Councils tend to use private firms for recycling.

The private firms attempted to do household waste but failed to hit schedules, complete rounds

Believe it it not it is a huge issue and councilors faced many complaints

So they brought it all back in-house.

Biffa are contracted by the council to collect waste in Manchester. It’s a private company.

 

[Vic]

You are seriously moaning that they "only" have a basic paid as little as £62k before add-ons - realistically £80k to £100k. Seriously??? Wow.

Market forces, dear boy. Better pay and conditions in our colonies.

 

[Vic]

Excellent wasn't it! Public sector workers feeling some pain just like everyone else, for a change. All in it together etc.

There you go. A Tory wanting to depress wages. Nuff said.

 

[Vic]

Just under 40% do thats not "most". Also its a declining trend as more and more councils are looking to take it in house because despite outsourcing the physical activity of bin collection in law the council retains responsibility for it so if the company doing the work start doing a poor job of it then its the council not the company that is taken to task over it.

Like having responsibility for school improvement but no power to compel academies to cooperate.

 

[Chippy_boy]

the bikes cannot be free - she would have been paying a BiK - What you are pushing is not dissimilar to the "Motability cars are handed out for free" nonsense being pushed by the right. Nobody gets anything for free if you are a PAYE worker

Pedant. Yes you have to pay bik tax on things given to you for free.

 

[mayo31]

Biffa are contracted by the council to collect waste in Manchester. It’s a private company.

I stand corrected

Seems it a hybrid also for others but several also do it themselves

 

[BobKowalski]

Did they promise lower bills?

As I stated previously my bill is lower. Stop looking to the Government to wipe your arse and get yourself a better deal.

 

[BobKowalski]

There you go. A Tory wanting to depress wages. Nuff said.

It always comes out. It’s like Tory Tourette’s. They can’t help themselves :)

 

[Hertzblue]

Just a couple of things

My kids both got firsts in what you would doubtless call worthless degrees. My lad has just completed on the purchase of a £400k house. His first home which he can afford because he got what you would consider a Mickey Mouse degree.

War? War? Yes you can mention war. It was a disgrace under Blair that we slavishly followed Bush and I am sure I can get your agreement that was a war predicated on lies. However we entered a war under Labour and the economy didn't take a hit. Ukraine entered a war with Russia and all the Tories bang on about is thats one reason why our economy took a hit. The Iraq war started 6 years into a growing UK economy which could absorb the hit the invasion of another country came about after 12 years of Tory austerity and cuts leading to stagnant growth.

Well done on your kids academic success and your son getting on the housing ladder, it's not easy for them these days. That said whilst it's nice to see that they have bucked the trend it doesn't disprove my point, there is a raft of data available showing how poorly some graduates from these new courses are earning versus the £40-£50k of debt they have incurred and in far too many cases will be unable to re-pay.

Your point on Blair's war appears to be yes it was a bad decision but not so bad because we could afford it which is no mitigation at all for me.

 

[Chippy_boy]

There you go. A Tory wanting to depress wages. Nuff said.

Only your wages ;-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

War? War? Yes you can mention war. It was a disgrace under Blair that we slavishly followed Bush and I am sure I can get your agreement that was a war predicated on lies. However we entered a war under Labour and the economy didn't take a hit. Ukraine entered a war with Russia and all the Tories bang on about is thats one reason why our economy took a hit.

The impact of the war in Ukraine has been on energy costs. Affecting pretty much everyone in the UK quite significantly. Surely you recognise that??? Wholesale gas prices were up 10x at one point. 10x.

 

[Hertzblue]

No government will please ever, you know that right ?

They’ve actually done incredibly well in a year, we’re all being played.

Some Birthday cards are better than others..