Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[nmc]

I can't compare Manchester to Lyon, Munuch or Zurich because I don't know those cities but what I can say with certainty is that there is only a small logistical benefit to creating an underground network inside the inner ring road.

But there is… those cities have tram networks or light rail systems that reach out North South East and West and are able to cross the city centre easily by going underground. That’s Manchesters problem the tram network in the City Centre gets bogged down in the Victorian streets.

 

[Gordyola]

sorry if its somewhere else in the thread but I couldn't see it. I was driving past the training ground and I noticed alot of work being done where the old midland bank used to be opposite bank street is this part of the complex or is this something different. I hadnt been past in a while but was avoiding the m60 last week so only just noticed it.

Manchester City breaks ground on new Women's training facility

Manchester City is underway with building a new purpose-built training facility for Manchester City Women at the Club’s training centre, City Football Academy.

www.mancity.com

Check out progress on the drone videos found on North Stand thread

 

[philfodenswristsock]

The original bit of Metrolink was done very much on the cheap. Even the number of trams was inadequate, the trams themselves were shit quality and much of the permanent way needed relaying. But it was Thatcher-time and it was a miracle anything was built at all.

As I never tire of reminding people, the choice was not between Metrolink and something better. It was between Metrolink and nowt.

The Oldham/Rochdale line, for example. It was falling apart at the seams and major investment was needed if it was not to close. Some people say the trains were better, but new/improved trains were not on offer. It was Metrolink or closure on the grounds of decrepitude.

Metrolink eliminated what was previously a huge revenue subsidy. That's all that made it feasible, albeit on the basis of higher fares and (arguably) poorer quality carriages.

If the day ever dawns when the people of the UK are happy to pay higher taxes in exchange for a really excellent public transport system, we may see an upgrade. But I for one do not expect to live to see that day dawn.

People oft forget quite how run down Salford and Manchester were and the urban redevelopment that was pleaded for in the late 40s below, wasn't actually anywhere near to happening until the mid 90s.

"I'm gonna make me a good sharp axe
Shining steel tempered in the fire
I'll chop you down like an old dead tree
Dirty old town
Dirty old town"

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

You are talking bullshit about ‘over an hour’ from Manchester Airport to the City Centre.

It is ten minutes on the train. Metrolink to the airport was never intended to ferry passengers to and from the City Centre. It was always about getting the workforce from all around South Manchester there.

I have only ever used the tram to the airport once when the train service was not running.

The City Council pushed for many years to get the Picc-Vic underground rail link and eventually were forced to give up because the figures didn’t add up to meet Treasury guidelines.

My post was badly worded, it wasn’t intended to imply it took an hour from Piccadilly to the airport, but ten minutes is from the platform, actually 13 mins or 20 depending on the train you get, you’d have to add 10 mins walk from Picc Gardens (if that’s the centre). But look at the times from Victoria (the station for those in the north of GM) and it’s suddenly 30mins. Add in the connection to get there and you’re approaching the hour. That’s the issue and why I drive it because it’s 35 to 50 mins on the motorway.

 

[jimharri]

Let's keep the politicking to the relevant forum, please.

 

[Atypical]

Monorail would be better in Manchester on the Mancunian way.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

But there is… those cities have tram networks or light rail systems that reach out North South East and West and are able to cross the city centre easily by going underground. That’s Manchesters problem the tram network in the City Centre gets bogged down in the Victorian streets.

Scores, perhaps hundreds, of provincal cities across the world, have put trains and trams underground in their central districts. It means the above ground space is freed up for development which can include new green space, civic squares etc. It allows those cities to better protect and enhance their architectural gems. It reduces pollution and allows for more pedestrian-only areas and more extensive use of cycling. As usual the UK is decades behind what is happening elsewhere in the world.

 

[spinney]

Scores, perhaps hundreds, of provincal cities across the world, have put trains and trams underground in their central districts. It means the above ground space is freed up for development which can include new green space, civic squares etc. It allows those cities to better protect and enhance their architectural gems. It reduces pollution and allows for more pedestrian-only areas and more extensive use of cycling. As usual the UK is decades behind what is happening elsewhere in the world.

Ah but how many of them have a secret underground bunker and tunnels under them stopping underground building ?

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Ah but how many of them have a secret underground bunker and tunnels under them stopping underground building ?

I can think of one famous one in Berlin! And I think London has a few tunnels, rivers, and Roman remains!

 

[jrb]

Sunday.

The constructed sections of the new bar, which will be overlooking the canal, are being stored on the car park, waiting to be installed.

From Joe Mercer Way.

From the canal path.

Canalside

Discover Canalside at Co-op Live – a canal-side café, pre-show bar, and private hire venue in Manchester. Enjoy great coffee, Detroit-style pizza, and unique event spaces with waterfront views.

www.cooplive.com

 

[pride in battle]

Sunday.

The constructed sections of the new bar, which will be overlooking the canal, are being stored on the car park, waiting to be installed.

From Joe Mercer Way.

From the canal path.

Canalside

Discover Canalside at Co-op Live – a canal-side café, pre-show bar, and private hire venue in Manchester. Enjoy great coffee, Detroit-style pizza, and unique event spaces with waterfront views.

www.cooplive.com

This will be a great addition on match days and none match days.

 

[jrb]

This will be a great addition on match days and none match days.

Alongside the Coop Liverpool Arena bar, and the fan zone.

 

[Buckshaw Blue]

Alongside the Coop Live Arena bar, and the fan zone.

Fixed that for you :-)

 

[HelloCity]

Sunday.

The constructed sections of the new bar, which will be overlooking the canal, are being stored on the car park, waiting to be installed.

From Joe Mercer Way.

From the canal path.

Canalside

Discover Canalside at Co-op Live – a canal-side café, pre-show bar, and private hire venue in Manchester. Enjoy great coffee, Detroit-style pizza, and unique event spaces with waterfront views.

www.cooplive.com

Hopefully there will be some good attention to detail with the landscaping around that area.

 

[Marvin.]

Scores, perhaps hundreds, of provincal cities across the world, have put trains and trams underground in their central districts. It means the above ground space is freed up for development which can include new green space, civic squares etc. It allows those cities to better protect and enhance their architectural gems. It reduces pollution and allows for more pedestrian-only areas and more extensive use of cycling. As usual the UK is decades behind what is happening elsewhere in the world.

In London, the Underground is an economic necessity. Liverpool has the Mersey, you need a tunnel, or bridge. I have never once used the tram or bus to travel across Manchester City centre as it's a 20 minute walk but if there was a moment when a Manchester underground would have been viable it would have been in place of the Metrolink because it does not compete with cars, buses and pedestrians.

 

[BrianW]

As I understand it, they can't expand Metrolink significantly without another route across the city centre. They take the view that no such route is feasible through the streets.

I have my own thoughts on that, but then I'm not a transport professional. The argument is that a tunnel is necessary not that it's a nice-to-have add-on.

 

[JGL07]

In London, the Underground is an economic necessity. Liverpool has the Mersey, you need a tunnel, or bridge. I have never once used the tram or bus to travel across Manchester City centre as it's a 20 minute walk but if there was a moment when a Manchester underground would have been viable it would have been in place of the Metrolink because it does not compete with cars, buses and pedestrians.

Of course, Metrolink was the successor to the abandoned Pic-Vic rail link. Back in the day the gap between Piccadilly and Victoria was a major issue. In the mid-1960s, I recall being in Manchester City Centre on a Saturday lunchtime seeing a group of red-scarved Arsenal supporters walking along Market Street. I was puzzled until I realised that they were heading for a match at Burnley or Blackburn. That involved a train to Piccadilly and a walk to Victoria.

The Pic-Vic link was intended to deal with that sort of issue as well as local transport needs. They eventually partially got around that issue by linking rail routes to East Lancashire via Preston. Eventually the Castlefield Curve did provide the direct link in a rather roundabout way.

Metrolink did connect Bury, Oldham, and Rochdale with the City Centre and Altricham, and later other towns but did not quite provide the rapid transit system that we were promised in the 1970s.

The failure of Pic-Vic to attract Treasury funding was particularly galling as money was made available for the Tyne-Wear Metro and Merseyrail soon afterwards. Manchester had to make do with the tram/light rail system along with Sheffield, West Midlands, Nottingham, and Croydon. Pic-Vic was very expensive for what it accomplished but the fact that it would have linked the north and south of the Conurbation maybe was not taken into account.

However plenty of other proposed light-rail/tram/trolleybus systems were never built including Leeds, Bristol, and Belfast. But then again the investment in the London Underground never seemed to be constrained by anything!

 

[Manchester1894]

The diaganol locations of the CFA and stadium are established. Would love us to get that Asda site when the North Stand is complete. Would leave the other corner (Mary D's) left to complete our own mini City.

 

[nmc]

As I understand it, they can't expand Metrolink significantly without another route across the city centre. They take the view that no such route is feasible through the streets.

I have my own thoughts on that, but then I'm not a transport professional. The argument is that a tunnel is necessary not that it's a nice-to-have add-on.

The other sensible alternative is to follow the likes of Bordeaux and close the centre of the City to cars - you can’t get anywhere by car so leave the immediate City centre to pedestrians, bikes and trams. Politically difficult and a tough decision but see pictures of Bordeaux City centre 20 years ago and then now and it’s a way better place. No parked cars everywhere, pollution has dropped like a stone and people can move around. The big issue would be how large do you make the pedestrian zone? And convincing people to park up on the outskirts and walk the last 10 or 15 mins -which in many cases would speed up the journey.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

The other sensible alternative is to follow the likes of Bordeaux and close the centre of the City to cars - you can’t get anywhere by car so leave the immediate City centre to pedestrians, bikes and trams. Politically difficult and a tough decision but see pictures of Bordeaux City centre 20 years ago and then now and it’s a way better place. No parked cars everywhere, pollution has dropped like a stone and people can move around. The big issue would be how large do you make the pedestrian zone? And convincing people to park up on the outskirts and walk the last 10 or 15 mins -which in many cases would speed up the journey.

Cars should be banned already, but trams and people don’t mix too well either in those mixed use places.

One of the issues in recent years is how they now terminate buses at the earliest entry point to the city which for me is Shudehill. That’s still quite a walk to Piccadilly if I’m going south of Manchester and not easy (or nice through the Gardens) if you’re dragging luggage especially when returning home at night. I used to be able to get right onto Piccadilly Approach by bus.

The constant issues with the tram in the city centre and having no alternative route is ridiculous as currently you can’t even use the tram from Shudehill (at an extra cost too) and with luggage is ill-advised even when operating.

You could ban cars and re-introduce buses crossing the centre like before but it only moves the congestion to the pinch points further out, where bus services again get delayed in snarled up traffic.