PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Well, the question the Premier League can ask is essentially the same one UEFA asked in 2014: did Sheikh Mansour exercise significant influence over Aabar, Etisalat and Etihad?

The answers are probably Aabar: yes, Etisalat: maybe, Etihad: no.

So if the Premier League is relying on broadly the same evidence as UEFA, Etihad looks like a dead end, and Aabar and Etisalat are the only areas where they might realistically score some points in section 1.
There's also two separate issues here. The first is, whether related or associated parties are involved or not, were the sponsorship agreements at market value? Given they've never been challenged, and that even UEFA accepted Etihad was broadly in line with the market (which CAS also agreed with) then there is no financial issue.

Where the problem arises is in statutory reporting, and the CAS judgment made a comment about this, stating that if had improperly failed to declare related party transactions then we could be guilty of misreporting. But that has zero impact on our financial reporting, as long as a sponsorship is fair value and correctly accounted for.

I've speculated previously that one of the reasons that related parties are of interest in our case is that we would be forced to publish the value of these sponsorships, and this is exactly what some clubs want.

And para 11 of IAS 24 specifically states
"In the context of this Standard, the following are not related parties:
(a) two entities simply because they have a director or other member of key management personnel in common or because a member of key management personnel of one entity has significant influence over the other entity."


Sheikh Mansour himself is clearly a related party to Manchester City, but to prove Aabar was, the PL would have to show that he played a central role there and played a key part in arranging the sponsorship agreement. And I'm not sure how they'd do that.
 
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The PL accepts auditors' assessment of what is and what isn't a related party. If it's disclosed as such in the accounts, it's related. If it isn't, it isn't. This was confirmed in the APT hearings and the perception that it wasn't good enough was what led to the APT rules in the first place. So, as such, the PL itself doesn't have any rules regarding related party transactions, other than that any transactions noted as such in the accounts should be at fair value - they use accounting standard definitions as assessed by the auditors.

What I think you are arguing is that the PL thinks the auditors came to the wrong assessment, or that the auditors were misled by the club's management. Neither of which seems very plausible to me - if you know the inner workings of Aabar, I am pretty sure the auditors and the PL did and came to the right conclusions. Also bearing in mind Aabar was peanuts and hardly worth 30 million of costs.

But I am feeling generous, so where I think you may have a point is on the wider issue of related parties as it concerns the Etihad allegations (I should say assumed allegations). There is a fundamental contradiction between what (we think are) the Etihad allegations and the acceptance that Etihad is not a related party. So if the PL is to have any chance of landing those allegations (I still maintain they don't), they will have to show that Mansour was in a position to "encourage" Etihad to play ball. I have a sneaking feeling the PL have been sniffing around ownership and legal entity structures in a way that would hopefully (for them) make such a connection. I don't know much about either so I can't conclude either way, but I always thought it odd that the ultimate controlling party changed from ADUG (one legal form) to Newton (another) around the time of the UEFA and PL investigations. It may be nothing, of course, but it may have been a way of strengthening the club's defence or of weakening a potential line of attack. It seems to me that that would be much more beneficial to the PL and certainly worth much more than attacking the Aabar transactions.

Just my twopenneth.
Like I said in an early post, what difference does it make to whether Etihad deal is related party or not if Uefa agreed it was at face value. This was around Uefa originally bringing in ffp
 
Like I said in an early post, what difference does it make to whether Etihad deal is related party or not if Uefa agreed it was at face value. This was around Uefa originally bringing in ffp

I wasn't talking about Etihad from the point of view of fair value but from the point of view of the behaviour the PL are alleging. They can't allege the funding scheme they are (presumably) without Mansour having influence over Etihad. Their issue is proving that influence.

That said, yes you are right, if it's all at fair value there should be no problem with designation as a RPT even, in my opinion, if the alleged behaviour did take place.
 
I wasn't talking about Etihad from the point of view of fair value but from the point of view of the behaviour the PL are alleging. They can't allege the funding scheme they are (presumably) without Mansour having influence over Etihad. Their issue is proving that influence.

That said, yes you are right, if it's all at fair value there should be no problem with designation as a RPT even, in my opinion, if the alleged behaviour did take place.
I dont see how Mansours influence makes any difference unless the EPL can prove that he has paid the majority of the Etihad sponsorship himself, which is looking highly unlikely
 
Premier League is not bound by what UEFA concluded in any of its investigations. What matters here is not UEFA’s 2014 settlement or the CAS judgment, but whether Aabar can be regarded as a related party under the Premier League’s own rules. As HH Sheikh Mansour was the chairman of IPIC, which owned Aabar, and his close aides were managing IPIC and Aabar, there is a serious argument that Aabar was not an independent third party but was indirectly controlled by the club’s owner and therefore a related party.
Of course you know that to be a related party you have to prove HH Sheikh Mansour has a significant influence on Aabar. It's not adequate to be a chairman of a company that has a % equity in the firm. It just doesn't work like that. This significant control was unprovable in the CAS case and will always be unprovable. The PL can't just assume HH Sheikh Mansour has control they have to have some tangible evidence for it otherwise it's just hearsay. The PL simply won't have this evidence at all. In fact they won't even have a clue about the management structure of Aabar or any of it's internal business.
 
Well, the question the Premier League can ask is essentially the same one UEFA asked in 2014: did Sheikh Mansour exercise significant influence over Aabar, Etisalat and Etihad?

The answers are probably Aabar: yes, Etisalat: maybe, Etihad: no.


So if the Premier League is relying on broadly the same evidence as UEFA, Etihad looks like a dead end, and Aabar and Etisalat are the only areas where they might realistically score some points in section 1.

and your proof of this is?
 
Yet more sponsorship deals and new sponsorship deals i might add.

What is that for number of the soft signals the club keep giving out? Must be double figures.

If we are as rotten to the core as the Premier League, Masters and all the red cartel wanker cheerleaders say we are then I'm sorry these new companies come nowhere near us. Fact.

This only backs up the confidence and the positivity that khaldoon has shown and has spoke about regarding the 115.

It is quite simple. You don't associate yourself with bad eggs or want your name plastered all over a club or an organisation who are guilty of wrongdoing.

Over to you masters you fat fuckin ponce.

I do believe it is 6 love, 6 love, 5 love and we're on match point!!
 
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Except the PRA still hasn't removed the restrictions on their limited banking licence to make it a full one.
I dont lnow what that says about UK regulations but Revolut has full banking licence every where else.


In the EU/EEA, Revolut operates as a fully-licensed bank under the Bank of Lithuania and is regulated at EU level. Customer deposits in those jurisdictions are generally protected under the EU deposit guarantee scheme (up to €100,000 per person). �
Revolut
In the UK, Revolut has a restricted banking licence and is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), but full licence conditions (like consumer credit services) are still being finalised. �
Financial Times
In the US, it partners with an FDIC-insured bank, so deposits are protected up to $250,000. �
Forbes
 
Yet more sponsorship deals and new sponsorship deals i might add.

What is that for number of the soft signals the club keep giving out? Must be double figures.

If we are as rotten to the core as the Premier League, Masters and all the red cartel wanker cheerleaders say we are then I'm sorry these new companies come nowhere near us. Fact.

This only backs up the confidence and the positivity that khaldoon has shown and has spoke about regarding the 115.

It is quite simple. You don't associate yourself with bad eggs or want your name plastered all over a club or an organisation who are guilty of wrongdoing.

Over to you masters you fat fuckin ponce.

I do believe it is 6 love, 6 love, 5 love and we're on match point!!

Like for " fat fuckin ponce "
 
Far too much sensible chat about the detail on this thread recently ;-)
Don’t worry Ted is currently eating a corned beef(dog)sandwich normal service will resume shortly.
 

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I dont see how Mansours influence makes any difference unless the EPL can prove that he has paid the majority of the Etihad sponsorship himself, which is looking highly unlikely

Long post warning - sorry.

But, fair enough. Maybe I am not explaining my thought process properly or maybe I'm not making any sense. Let's see - I'll try one last time, then you can tell me.

Forget fair value for a moment. That is a separate issue which we can talk about later, if you want.

The PL is alleging (as far as we know) that Mansour came to Etihad with a fraudulent scheme whereby he wanted them to sign a super-generous sponsorship scheme with City, but they didn't have to worry about funding it because he would personally give them most of the funds himself.

Now, we can assume for a number of reasons that the PL doesn't have a "smoking gun" such as a whistle-blower with irrefutable evidence. So the PL needs to convince the panel on the balance of probabilities, with particularly cogent evidence, that that happened. They will presumably have many lines of attack - emails, presentations, financial documents and the like, and then they will have to answer the question - why would Etihad do that?

If a complete stranger came to you and asked you to break the law, you would tell him to fuck off. And quite rightly. If someone who had significant control over your life asked you to do it, you may consider it. So if the PL could show Mansour had significant control it strengthens their case, if they can't it weakens their case.

That's my point, really. Up to everyone else to pooh-pooh it. No problem.

How would the PL be able to show that? There are decades of audited accounts that show Mansour doesn't have significant control (as defined by accounting standards) over any of the club's sponsors. To over-ride that consistent and accepted auditor opinion the PL would have to have some pretty serious "evidence". Just quoting publicly known facts about who does what where won't be enough no matter what Harris and Magic Twat say.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the PL have been sniffing around the "owned by Abu Dhabi" narrative in the hope of raising it as a line of attack. I don't know enough about the legal and company structure situation in Abu Dhabi to come to any conclusion on that, but I do know the "ultimate controlling undertaking" of the club changed in the middle of these investigations from a company with one legal form to one with another. I am speculating that may be connected, as a means of strengthening the club's defence, or of weakening an attack from the PL.

In fact, the accounts now refer to Mansour as the ultimate controlling "party" under the"ultimate controlling undertaking" note, which is a little odd as it has previously referred to ADUG and then Newton. May all be nothing, it just seemed strange to me at the time, and still does, tbh.

I'm not sure I can explain it all any more clearly than that. So, there you go. It's probably all bollocks - we will see soon enough.

Oh, and corned beef sandwiches are delicious. Sue me.
 
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