Keir Starmer

This fiasco highlights massive problems and vulnerabilities in our system.

The security services should be the ultimate decision makers, not politicians.

If MI6 say someone fails vetting then end of story, they don’t get the job, tough shit.

This is Johnson levels of fuckwittery and grubbiness.
 
Postman Pep said:
What is about an alternative that you refuse to contemplate?
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Absolutely nothing, I will contemplate all of them, I’ve always been a supporter of proportional representation. Given that isn’t reality though, which party right now do you want to see in power at the next general election?
 
meltonblue said:
Absolutely nothing, I will contemplate all of them, I’ve always been a supporter of proportional representation. Given that isn’t reality though, which party right now do you want to see in power at the next general election?
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Good question. For me, Libdem, but with Greens a close second. Think a dose of socialism deserves another go. And for at least a generation. The alternative plainly isn’t working. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
This fiasco highlights massive problems and vulnerabilities in our system.

The security services should be the ultimate decision makers, not politicians.

If MI6 say someone fails vetting then end of story, they don’t get the job, tough shit.

This is Johnson levels of fuckwittery and grubbiness.
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It sums up how politicians view the public. The vetting rules are literally underwritten by the cabinet office so how can they stand by those rules now given they have wilfully ignored the rules for simple political gain?

Mandelson himself would surely undergo basic employment checks and one of which will question whether he was suitable to have a security clearance. Answering yes to that would be a clear lie which is instant grounds for failure as vetting challenges your integrity first and foremost. To still continue is just almost criminal madness.

The most fatal thing that everybody forgets is that vetting is meant to protect national security and the unlawful disclosure of sensitive information. Mandelson is being investigated for that right now so for me this goes beyond how they were so stupid to ignore advice and employ some dickhead who had associated with a nonce.

Olly Robins said it today, there are clearly very serious breaches that we don't know about and they likely go beyond Mandelson's association with Epstein.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Yes lots of things were shite in the ‘70s, but was the Winter of Discontent honestly worse than the water companies routinely dumping shit in our rivers and surrounding seas?

Seriously?
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How about something in between where those in need are accounted for, basic utilities that everyone needs such as water, public transport, healthcare, gas and electric etc. are in public hands and affordable, not private. Private organisations are held accountable for mistreatment of the environment and the public. Politicians act with decency and accountability and also, there’s enough growth in the private sector so we don’t revert back to the 70s?

Are we incapable of that as a country?
 
Ban-jani said:
How about something in between where those in need are accounted for, basic utilities that everyone needs such as water, public transport, healthcare, gas and electric etc. are in public hands and affordable, not private. Private organisations are held accountable for mistreatment of the environment and the public. Politicians act with decency and accountability and also, there’s enough growth in the private sector so we don’t revert back to the 70s?

Are we incapable of that as a country?
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I would be happy with that. My aspiration was for a ‘dose of socialism’. As in a measured amount. So we are arguing for the same thing.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I would be happy with that. My aspiration was for a ‘dose of socialism’. As in a measured amount. So we are arguing for the same thing.
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I could have maybe worded it better at the start, I was meaning to agree with you and state that finding the happy balance, with those leading us having some accountability and decency, shouldn’t be as difficult as we’ve found it.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Yes lots of things were shite in the ‘70s, but was the Winter of Discontent honestly worse than the water companies routinely dumping shit in our rivers and surrounding seas?

Seriously?
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I remember in the '70's we used to criticise some European countries because of their water quality. People needing to buy bottled water for drinking was ridiculous, we said. If you go abroad on holiday don't drink the water, we said. Don't have ice in your drink, we said.
Nowadays in England we can't rely on tap water anymore except for maybe brushing our teeth with, or boiling it for a cup of tea.

What a state this country is in, 50 years down the line.
 
BillCarlisle said:
I remember in the '70's we used to criticise some European countries because of their water quality. People needing to buy bottled water for drinking was ridiculous, we said. If you go abroad on holiday don't drink the water, we said. Don't have ice in your drink, we said.
Nowadays in England we can't rely on tap water anymore except for maybe brushing our teeth with, or boiling it for a cup of tea.

What a state this country is in, 50 years down the line.
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From my perspective the argument in favour of privatisation was won in the ‘90s. Think it overall had made things better.

But that argument no longer holds any water. Something has gone horribly wrong. Maybe it was inevitable. I honestly don’t know.

The problem with some folk, is that because they won some argument 30 years ago they assume that argument is always going to be the winning one.

Which is ridiculous if you think about it.
 
True_Blue69 said:
Sums up the state of British politics when people are arguing about who is the biggest liar Starmer or Johnson. Let's be honest, when you look at the list since Tony Blair, only David Cameron bears a semblance to a proper PM and he made one of the worst decisions in recent memory to let the public vote on Brexit. The fact that the major parties are full of absolute weapons is the reason crank parties like Reform & Green are being talked about.
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History will be a lot kinder to May than she was treated at the time.
 
meltonblue said:
.
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meltonblue said:
Absolutely nothing, I will contemplate all of them, I’ve always been a supporter of proportional representation.
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Same. But that doesn't mean you contemplate all alternatives.
meltonblue said:
Given that isn’t reality though, which party right now do you want to see in power at the next general election?
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Case in point. Reducing everything down to who gets to arrange the deckchairs every now and again is kind of the problem.
 
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