Keir Starmer

[hilts]

Indirectly because they're sat on assets that have appreciated by around 5000%+ and they plan to capitalise upon every single penny of that appreciation and preferably tax-free! They're also often invested into far more lucrative pensions such as final salary pensions which have similarly capitalised upon the exact same thing.

None of these things will be available to young people now or in the future. You cannot capitalise upon the appreciation of an asset that you will never own. You cannot capitalise upon your pension when you don't have enough income spare to put into a pension.

I know that pensioners can't do anything about this directly but I find that they're the worst people when it comes to sharing the load whether that be paying tax or taking away things like WFA which many just do not need. When you think of things like Brexit this generation of pensioners are the first in history to sequentially vote for a worst standard of living for their own children.

Just remember that 1/3 of pensioners are asset millionaires whilst 3/3 of young people today have a net worth of nothing. And people are fighting the corner of the pensioners, why? This is about fairness and not just an attack on any particular group. Young people are not working on the same terms because the system is simply rigged against them.

So they aren't responsible and can't do anything about it directly. Why pensioners? Why not rich folk who are younger, maybe make them pay extra for education, or health care, make em cough up for bin collections. Or as one poster put it guess when they are gonna die.

They worked, some got a works pension, maybe only a small one maybe a bigger one, they bought a house to live in, they wouldnt have known how the housing market in the future was gonna go, they pay tax on all this currently.

So pray tell if the current state pension is around 12k at what amount above that are you means testing or taking money off them?
They will be paying tax anyhow like everyone else. Why are they getting it in the neck?

 

[hilts]

Yet it's exactly how an annuity from a private pension pot works.

Its not based on how rich you are, your obsession with pensioners is fucking weird mate.

 

[Vic]

Its not based on how rich you are, your obsession with pensioners is fucking weird mate.

In a thread that's discussing pensions?

Like talking about goals in a football thread is weird...

 

[hilts]

In a thread that's discussing pensions?

Like talking about goals in a football thread is weird...

You go on about it all the time, anyhow are pension annuities based on how rich someone is? A yes or no will do.

Btw the rich will have paid a lot more for their state pensions through higher contributions.

There are much better and fairer ways of getting more tax, unfortunately your party ruled out a very good one.

 

[We've got Guardiola]

So they aren't responsible and can't do anything about it directly. Why pensioners? Why not rich folk who are younger, maybe make them pay extra for education, or health care, make up cough up for bin collections. Or as one poster put it guess when they are gonna die.

They worked, some got a works pension, maybe only a small one maybe a bigger one, they bought a house to live in, they wouldnt have known how the housing market in the future was gonna go, they pay tax on all this currently.

So pray tell if the current state pension is around 12k at what amount above that are you means testing or taking money off them?
They will be paying tax anyhow like everyone else. Why are they getting it?

I know folk who retired in their late 50's at our place and they were on above average but still average wages. They're now on several holidays a year, living out their free time playing golf on their final salary pensions. How can a young person manage this by simply working hard as they're repeatedly told?

I bought my first house when I was 32 and because of property crashes and financial craziness I'll still be paying my mortgage off when I'm 62. I could overpay my mortgage but then I'm yet to discover where that money comes from. For a start I pay £1100pm for my mortgage and £750pm for childcare for one child. I wonder why people are having less children?

I won't get a final salary pension and my current pension target says I'm about £50k short to live on £32k per year when I eventually hit my target retirement age of 67.... Is hard work really the only difference between me and these blokes retiring in comfort at 60? Hard to justify given I do the exact same job they did.

Anyone could tell me to shutup and stop with the woe me but I don't have a problem with pensioners being wealthy or having money. I have a problem with the simple fact that most people below 40 are playing a game that runs under completely different rules.

 

[Vic]

You go on about it all the time, anyhow are pension annuities based on how rich someone is? A yes or no will do.

Btw the rich will have paid a lot more for their state pensions through higher contributions.

There are much better and fairer ways of getting more tax, unfortunately your party ruled out a very good one.

A rich person is on average likely to get their state pension for twice as long as a poor person (based on disparity of life expectancy). Even allowing for having made higher contributions, is that fair?

 

[hilts]

I know folk who retired in their late 50's at our place and they were on above average but still average wages. They're now on several holidays a year, living out their free time playing golf on their final salary pensions. How can a young person manage this by simply working hard as they're repeatedly told?

I bought my first house when I was 32 and because of property crashes and financial craziness I'll still be paying my mortgage off when I'm 62. I could overpay my mortgage but then I'm yet to discover where that money comes from. For a start I pay £1100pm for my mortgage and £750pm for childcare for one child. I wonder why people are having less children?

I won't get a final salary pension and my current pension target says I'm about £50k short to live on £32k per year when I eventually hit my target retirement age of 67.... Is hard work really the only difference between me and these blokes retiring in comfort at 60? Hard to justify given I do the exact same job they did.

Anyone could tell me to shutup and stop with the woe me but I don't have a problem with pensioners being wealthy or having money. I have a problem with the simple fact that most people below 40 are playing a game that runs under completely different rules.

Im sticking up for pensioners after some were sneering at those even with a little bit above 12k, I aint projecting onto the young.Pay, rents, cost of living, house prices are the responsibility of the govt to sort. It won't be done by means testing pensioners.

 

[Vic]

I know folk who retired in their late 50's at our place and they were on above average but still average wages. They're now on several holidays a year, living out their free time playing golf on their final salary pensions. How can a young person manage this by simply working hard as they're repeatedly told?

I bought my first house when I was 32 and because of property crashes and financial craziness I'll still be paying my mortgage off when I'm 62. I could overpay my mortgage but then I'm yet to discover where that money comes from. For a start I pay £1100pm for my mortgage and £750pm for childcare for one child. I wonder why people are having less children?

I won't get a final salary pension and my current pension target says I'm about £50k short to live on £32k per year when I eventually hit my target retirement age of 67.... Is hard work really the only difference between me and these blokes retiring in comfort at 60? Hard to justify given I do the exact same job they did.

Anyone could tell me to shutup and stop with the woe me but I don't have a problem with pensioners being wealthy or having money. I have a problem with the simple fact that most people below 40 are playing a game that runs under completely different rules.

Oh gosh. You have got it in for pensioners, haven't you?

(Just anticipating some replies. Oh, too late.)

 

[hilts]

A rich person is on average likely to get their state pension for twice as long as a poor person (based on disparity of life expectancy). Even allowing for having made higher contributions, is that fair?

I suppose it depends on how much more they have put in. The concept of paying and receiving the state pension is simple.
But again answer the question, do annuities get worked out on how rich someone is beyond the amount in their pension, yes or no? If you are unwilling to answer because you were wrong fine it just shows me you cant admit it. Just dont reply.
Your view is unworkable for so many reasons.

 

[hilts]

Oh gosh. You have got it in for pensioners, haven't you?

(Just anticipating some replies. Oh, too late.)

I wonder why that gets levelled at you, erm....... :-)

 

[WRicko]

Was I and thousands of others not burdened with paying for pensioners then, as well as paying taxes, trying to raise and bring up a family?

Yes but 1 pensioners are living longer than previous generation and costing more. My generation is now probably split into a group of people with mental and physical health issues obesity who won’t live long and a group who are probably wealthy who will live even longer than ever wellbeing is in vogue going to the gym is a hobbie. Is it fair for the first group to pay for pensioners when they might not see pension age ?

And all those in this current generation are suffering more than previous generations with cost of living etc

 

[We've got Guardiola]

Im sticking up for pensioners after some were sneering at those even with a little bit above 12k, I aint projecting onto the young.Pay, rents, cost of living, house prices are the responsibility of the govt to sort. It won't be done by means testing pensioners.

Until recently we had a Tory government for 15 years which promised more benefits for pensioners and less taxation at the obvious expense of young people's livelihoods which have only worsened over that entire period. This is a period where the entire country was on its arse financially and we still are.

Which demographic do you think voted for the Tories by a greater factor than any other? And in hindsight which demographic sold their own children down the water by voting for us to leave the EU, an act we are only worse off for? They don't give a monkeys do they because they have their pension and they have their £££ house.

Yes it's the job and fault of the government but who put said governments in power in favour of their own interests? I just don't have any sympathy. The only side-swipe I guess is that pensioners have consistently voted for worse healthcare outcomes at a time when they actually need it. Swings and roundabouts....

Oh gosh. You have got it in for pensioners, haven't you?

(Just anticipating some replies. Oh, too late.)

I'm not one to generalise but they're a bloody nuisance, the cheeky gits also get 10% off in B&Q on a Wednesday and presumably they then slope off back home on their free bus passes back to their £500k houses.

(hopefully some folk will recognise a bit of sweeping satire here!)

 

[hilts]

Until recently we had a Tory government for 15 years which promised more benefits for pensioners and less taxation at the obvious expense of young people's livelihoods which have only worsened over that entire period. This is a period where the entire country was on its arse financially and we still are.

Which demographic do you think voted for the Tories by a greater factor than any other? And in hindsight which demographic sold their own children down the water by voting for us to leave the EU?

Yes it's the job and fault of the government but who put said government in power? I just don't have any sympathy. The only side-swipe I guess is that pensioners have consistently voted for worse healthcare outcomes at a time when they actually need it.


I'm not one to generalise but they're a bloody nuisance, the cheeky gits also get 10% off in B&Q on a Wednesday and presumably they then slope off back home on their free bus passes.

(hopefully folk will recognise a bit of sweeping satire here!)

Gotcha you're like @Vic you don't like the way some voted.

Thats pretty sad. Maybe we should tax working class Northerners more because you lost a vote, pmsl.

 

[We've got Guardiola]

Gotcha you're like @Vic you don't like the way some voted.

Thats pretty sad. Maybe we should tax working class Northerners more because you lost a vote, pmsl.

And that's democracy but blimey it's not like I'm calling for us to execute pensioners. It'd just be nice if they thought of somebody else for a change, like maybe what benefits their own children?

They say that people turn more and more conservative as they get older because they want to protect what they have and that's true. This is happening less and less for young people because they haven't got anything to protect.

You have to wonder how on earth are the bloody Greens polling so highly? Desperation is the answer.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Totally ignorant post. In my last post I never said people didn't work for anything, you however had a clearly defined path for which you worked and reaped the rewards. Young people work too but they don't get the same rewards! Young people today can work to the bone and still be completely unable to afford a basic standard of living.

I mentioned my brother and he pays £1000pm in rent and realistically after bills he probably has about £500pm spare and that includes feeding himself and doing something other than breathing. Your solution is that he should 'work harder' or basically live off tinned beans so that he can save £200pm for a house that will take 10+ years to save up for... Can you see how ridiculous that is?

He was offered a below inflation payrise last year but inflation is 3%+, food inflation is even higher. His rent also goes up above inflation. Every year it's just a fact that he gets poorer in absolute real terms before any ability to do anything about it and you think he should just needs to 'save' or 'work' more? The system today is rigged against him before he even sets foot into work.

Every single statistic proves this. The average age of a first time buyer is now 32 whereas 30 years ago it was mid 20's. UK household debt is at the highest ever, the ratio of bills to wages has never been higher, the ratio of housing prices to salary was once around 2x salary, it's now nearly 8x salary!! And yet, the housing market continues to rise....

What is really happening is the wealthiest (and that includes pensioners) and their pension funds are sustaining a totally unsustainable housing market to fuel their own greed. In 2008 greed and foolishness totally destroyed the western economy and we haven't learnt a single lesson from it.

You've read an awful lot into my post that isn't there. I just don't like being labelled as had it easy.

 

[mosssideblue]

And that's democracy but blimey it's not like I'm calling for us to execute pensioners. It'd just be nice if they thought of somebody else for a change, like maybe what benefits their own children?

They say that people turn more and more conservative as they get older because they want to protect what they have and that's true. This is happening less and less for young people because they haven't got anything to protect.

You have to wonder how on earth are the bloody Greens polling so highly? Desperation is the answer.

You cheeky bastard. Fuck off with your shite

 

[mosssideblue]

You've read an awful lot into my post that isn't there. I just don't like being labelled as had it easy.

Or not thinking of someone else for a change

 

[MouldensChippy]

I know folk who retired in their late 50's at our place and they were on above average but still average wages. They're now on several holidays a year, living out their free time playing golf on their final salary pensions. How can a young person manage this by simply working hard as they're repeatedly told?

I bought my first house when I was 32 and because of property crashes and financial craziness I'll still be paying my mortgage off when I'm 62. I could overpay my mortgage but then I'm yet to discover where that money comes from. For a start I pay £1100pm for my mortgage and £750pm for childcare for one child. I wonder why people are having less children?

I won't get a final salary pension and my current pension target says I'm about £50k short to live on £32k per year when I eventually hit my target retirement age of 67.... Is hard work really the only difference between me and these blokes retiring in comfort at 60? Hard to justify given I do the exact same job they did.

Anyone could tell me to shutup and stop with the woe me but I don't have a problem with pensioners being wealthy or having money. I have a problem with the simple fact that most people below 40 are playing a game that runs under completely different rules.

Probably lucky that you weren't around for the interest rates in the 80's then !

Do you think that no one had the same thoughts when they were younger ?

 

[We've got Guardiola]

Probably lucky that you weren't around for the interest rates in the 80's then !

Do you think that no one had the same thoughts when they were younger ?

Did people stop affording houses in 1980's? No, they still afforded houses because housing costs were on a level that was sustainable against their salaries.

Interest rates are less relevant when the amount of borrowing versus your salary is less so it doesn't matter if interest rates change because it's affordable. The average house price then was £21k but the average salary was £7,000 so around 2-3x income. Would people in the 80's have felt a 0.5% rise? Of course not, it would barely register.

Contrast this to today, if interest rates rise by even 1% then the entire country will collapse because nobody would be able to afford their mortgage. My mortgage went from £850pm to £1100pm last year just on the basis of a 0.5% rise in interest rates. If I didn't remortgage or if interest rates go up more then that's me living on the street.

The simple fact is that 1% of a £21k average house is FAR less than 1% of a £250k average house and this what people don't understand when they make these arguments. You need to understand that if salaries had kept pace with housing then by the same logic the average salary should be around £80k but guess what it's not even half that.

 

[MouldensChippy]

Did people stop affording houses in 1980's? No, they still afforded houses because housing costs were on a level that was sustainable against their salaries.

Interest rates are less relevant when the amount of borrowing versus your salary is less so it doesn't matter if interest rates change because it's affordable. The average house price then was £21k but the average salary was £7,000 so around 2-3x income.

Contrast this to today, if interest rates rise by even 1% then the entire country will collapse because nobody would be able to afford their mortgage. My mortgage went from £850 to £1100 last year just on the basis of a 0.5% rise in interest rates. If it went up more then that's me done and living on the street.

The simple fact is that 1% of £25k is FAR less than 1% of £250k and this what people don't understand when they make these arguments. It would make sense if salaries had kept pace with housing but by that logic the average salary should be around £80k but guess what it's not even half that.

People generally don't start off in the 'average' price house though. They start lower and build up....

Seriously, try a mortgage 15% and above for a few years when you have four children, and an average wage.