Well they'll have to find 10 billion quid from somewhere, and they have a huge trade surplus with the UK, so I'm pretty sure they won't be best pleased to see us go. We, on the other hand, will have an extra 10 billion quid in the coffers, the freedom to trade with whoever we like, and the ability to select the immigrants with the skills this country needs. I can't think of a single good reason to stay in.
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blueinsa
Guest
Well they'll have to find 10 billion quid from somewhere, and they have a huge trade surplus with the UK, so I'm pretty sure they won't be best pleased to see us go. We, on the other hand, will have an extra 10 billion quid in the coffers, the freedom to trade with whoever we like, and the ability to select the immigrants with the skills this country needs. I can't think of a single good reason to stay in.
There is none.
Out from me.
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blueinsa
Guest
Murdochs sky news doing Daves work and trying its best to spread panic about migrant camps that will be in Dover.
Fucking shameful.
Fucking shameful.
Desperate stuff. Must mean their private polling is giving them cause for concern.Murdochs sky news doing Daves work and trying its best to spread panic about migrant camps that will be in Dover.
Fucking shameful.
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blueinsa
Guest
Desperate stuff. Must mean their private polling is giving them cause for concern.
Absolutely. The Tories will tear themselves apart over this as well they know and it will be all out civil war.
Dont fall for the scare stories. Business will go on with new frontiers and markets opened up and the banks wont go anywhere and we will get control of our own laws and borders.
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mat
Guest
Absolutely. The Tories will tear themselves apart over this as well they know and it will be all out civil war.
Dont fall for the scare stories. Business will go on with new frontiers and markets opened up and the banks wont go anywhere and we will get control of our own laws and borders.
The Tories are already tearing each other apart but it's not being very well covered by their media buddies....
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Fair points.The problem for me is that the Stay In brigade cannot tell me how we'd benefit. The deal Cameron has struck is not good enough for me.
For example, if a guy comes here and works why are we paying child allowance (at our rate or the home country rate doesn't matter)? Surely the country for which they passports and of which they're citizens should pay their own. Massive failure.
Anything we disagree with we need to court the support of 15 other nations to get whatever it is overturned. Good luck with that one.
The emergency brake..... is a joke. We going to get the Poles and Romanians to vote against their people? Don't think so.
So far by any standards he has failed miserably on what he promised in his party's manifesto and what he has so far isn't even assured.
We need to remain outside. I wouldn't worry about trade deals.... VW, Mercedes, BMW, EDF, nPower the list is as long as your arm would apply enough pressure to ensure we continue trading with Europe and on favourable terms.
By the way as regards getting the support of 15 other nations, this is to get legislation sent back for discussion ,not to have it overturned.
It's not a 'red card' as Dave would like us to believe, it's more of a 'pink card' and will never be used in practice anyway.
All a load of bollox really.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Very poor this from Sky. Headline item as well for God's sake.Desperate stuff. Must mean their private polling is giving them cause for concern.
The perfect fumble
Well-Known Member
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the freedom to trade with whoever we like
We have that now.
yerwot?
Well-Known Member
Will leaving create a single job? For the life of me I can't see how
Will staying in safeguard jobs in the foreign owned manufacturing sector, like Airbus, BMW, Nissan Jaguar Ford Landrover etc. Seems likely to me.
Will leaving mean the multinationals have even more power to drive down wages, to diminish workers already severely reduced rights. A knocking bet for sure.
I cannot fathom Cameron's desire to stay in, very untory of him as leader of a party with a long history of being "little englanders" and not trusting "Johnny Foreigner", puzzling.
99% of posters on here will have opinions influenced by the media, which is overwhelmingly for leaving, although Murdoch has done a u-turn and wants us to stay in,
a warning bell if ever there was one to those of us who distrust everything he does.
Unlike the outers I cannot see a happy ending by leaving, all this having our own laws, kicking out immigrants, turning us into some kind of fortress...,... doesn't appeal to me
Will staying in safeguard jobs in the foreign owned manufacturing sector, like Airbus, BMW, Nissan Jaguar Ford Landrover etc. Seems likely to me.
Will leaving mean the multinationals have even more power to drive down wages, to diminish workers already severely reduced rights. A knocking bet for sure.
I cannot fathom Cameron's desire to stay in, very untory of him as leader of a party with a long history of being "little englanders" and not trusting "Johnny Foreigner", puzzling.
99% of posters on here will have opinions influenced by the media, which is overwhelmingly for leaving, although Murdoch has done a u-turn and wants us to stay in,
a warning bell if ever there was one to those of us who distrust everything he does.
Unlike the outers I cannot see a happy ending by leaving, all this having our own laws, kicking out immigrants, turning us into some kind of fortress...,... doesn't appeal to me
Chancy Termites
Well-Known Member
If you're calling people who support the struggle for independence with a legislature elected by the people "little Englanders" then I'm calling those who wish to remain in a growing totalitarian state "the enemies of democracy".Will leaving create a single job? For the life of me I can't see how
Will staying in safeguard jobs in the foreign owned manufacturing sector, like Airbus, BMW, Nissan Jaguar Ford Landrover etc. Seems likely to me.
Will leaving mean the multinationals have even more power to drive down wages, to diminish workers already severely reduced rights. A knocking bet for sure.
I cannot fathom Cameron's desire to stay in, very untory of him as leader of a party with a long history of being "little englanders" and not trusting "Johnny Foreigner", puzzling.
99% of posters on here will have opinions influenced by the media, which is overwhelmingly for leaving, although Murdoch has done a u-turn and wants us to stay in,
a warning bell if ever there was one to those of us who distrust everything he does.
Unlike the outers I cannot see a happy ending by leaving, all this having our own laws, kicking out immigrants, turning us into some kind of fortress...,... doesn't appeal to me
I have the facts on my side too; the calling of people "little Englanders" is a purely emotional thing
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worsleyweb
Guest
A 100 percent no from me.
I keep saying this the vote will be an enormous majority to leave.
I know very few people who want to stay in. I will vote to stay but I fear it'll be a losing cause.
I was in Edinburgh the week before the Scottish Referendum. Everywhere you looked there were "Yes" flags. Numerous people wearing "Yes" badges. Absolutely no sign of any support for the No campaign. The following week 61% of the city's electorate voted No. Outers are just more noisy.
EalingBlue2
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That is very true but it doesn't mean they can't win. Trouble is neither side really knows why they want what they want and whether it will really solve any issues at all or create new ones. It is an experiment borne of frustration that either way will just result in more frustration as in many ways it is an attempt to put off taking hard decisions as for a few years at least Europe can be blamed or used to deflect.I was in Edinburgh the week before the Scottish Referendum. Everywhere you looked there were "Yes" flags. Numerous people wearing "Yes" badges. Absolutely no sign of any support for the No campaign. The following week 61% of the city's electorate voted No. Outers are just more noisy.
That is very true but it doesn't mean they can't win. Trouble is neither side really knows why they want what they want and whether it will really solve any issues at all or create new ones. It is an experiment borne of frustration that either way will just result in more frustration as in many ways it is an attempt to put off taking hard decisions as for a few years at least Europe can be blamed or used to deflect.
They can win, but they face a huge battle against inertia. Better the devil you know.Unless they are regularly polling over 60% in the weeks leading up to the referendum they will lose.
EalingBlue2
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I am sure both sides believe they are right and but neither side knows the consequences.The for and against arguments for both sides seem to be really similar, so somebody has to be lying surely! Ive no idea which way im going to vote
How can they possibly know how the rest of the world will react, how good trade deals will be, how many people are needed to employ a whole new chunk of civil service needed etc? The truth is the out campaign will be deludedly and dishonestly optimistic about the UKs prospects and the in campaign will be exaggeratedly and madly pessimistic about the same thing.
Ultimately the average punter will make a decision on whether things are that bad they want to take the plunge. It will very much depend on how Britain sees itself in the run up to the vote. It will probably also be very regional.
I can see it go either way but what concerns me most is the idea that the rest of the world is going to do great trade deals with the UK, they won't almost everyone will loom to extract something as everyone else will be in the box seat and there are a hell of a lot of countries out there who will love nothing more than giving Britain one in the eye. That said the sea from Cameron sounds like nothing more than window dressing and reform is needed of the EU as many of Europes structural problems are bigger Ponzi schemes even than the UKs plan to keep putting off the problems through great levels of immigration
EalingBlue2
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Yes because if people don't hate what they have they usually decide to keep it - better the devil you know, but who knows? It will divide the country like nothing else if no vote happens as the Union would come under threat again and some regions would undoubtably be disadvantaged whilst others Gained as jobs come and go.They can win, but they face a huge battle against inertia. Better the devil you know.Unless they are regularly polling over 60% in the weeks leading up to the referendum they will lose.
BlueHammer85
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Hope we stay in, I don't like the thought of isolation just as the world is being integrated. Too many just want us out because of migration, migration which has only benefited this country. Yes some level of border controls are needed, but this can still be negotiated whilst we remain in EU and try and make it better, the positives to remaining in get drowned out by really aggressive folk who seem hell bent in thinking our country will turn into some sort of 'Last of the summer wine' place once were out the EU and those pesky migrants go away.
Hope we stay in, I don't like the thought of isolation just as the world is being integrated. Too many just want us out because of migration, migration which has only benefited this country. Yes some level of border controls are needed, but this can still be negotiated whilst we remain in EU and try and make it better, the positives to remaining in get drowned out by really aggressive folk who seem hell bent in thinking our country will turn into some sort of 'Last of the summer wine' place once were out the EU and those pesky migrants go away.
We cannot negotiate with the EU whilst voting to stay in. Cameron has literally just proved that.