EU referendum

[Helmet Cole]

I don't think countries will exist in a century so I see the above as a fairly inevitable outcome of the world becoming one large corporate so I don't fear the inevitable

As a confirmed federalist why not just say this than trying to say being in the EU is better for our country? Imagine there's no countries, its easy if you try - john Lennon.

 

[Pam]

There may be left field ways around it but currently people need to follow the work and house prices are astronomical around employment centres. Ergo we need more houses around employment centres or more employment centres well away from the current employment centres.

What I am sure of is that adding an unknown amount of people every year makes it impossible for the government to know how many houses are required.

As a confirmed federalist why not just say this than trying to say being in the EU is better for our country? Imagine there's no countries, its easy if you try - john Lennon.

Yes. Little Englanders ought to be more irrelevant than they would appear to be ... imho

 

[Metal Biker]

As a confirmed federalist why not just say this than trying to say being in the EU is better for our country? Imagine there's no countries, its easy if you try - john Lennon.

I always loved the musical version of the Communist Manifesto!

Well, not really, always preferred the remake by that Gallagher bloke. I'm an uncultured swine, I know.

 

[Helmet Cole]

58.4% and rising.

 

[CityStu]

Yes. Little Englanders ought to be more irrelevant than they would appear to be ... imho

Honestly, please read. There is a huge difference between uncontrolled immigration (which we are forced to accept by the EU) and controlled immigration (which the vast majority of Out voters want).

 

[aguero93:20]

First point: I'd have to disagree there. A Government with a strong enough majority (Like Labour 97-01) was able to implement many new policies as the opposition (rejected by the electorate) wasn;t strong enough to oppose them. And they were clearly popular policies as they were voted in again.
Second point: The House of Lords can veto, but the House of Commons has the power to abolish the House of Lords, especially if the public was behind one of the motions put forward to them. It's a case of scrub my back, i'll scrub yours. In either case, the EU has had no influence here; unless it goes to one of the many European Courts, again highlighting their totalitarian aspect.
Third point: Can't see how any of that would affect Britain in the case of a exit.
Fourth point: It gives us no right to vote on future EU matters, no. But by then i'd be more concerned with getting our own house in order, which is kind of the point. Trade negotiations however have to be agreed upon as per Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.
Fifth point: The FPTP is indeed flawed. We tried to change it with the 'Alternative Vote' back in...2011? It failed, but again, as highlighted, this isn't about getting the choices we PERSONALLY want, it is the collective vote of the British voters and the path we choose for ourselves and ANY vote we undertake is a result of one side of the debate being more convincing that the other, instead of..."We're the EU....you do what WE say, you don't have a voice."

You call it mob rule, I call it direct democratic method. If something is being implemented you don't like, call for a referendum on it, propose a convincing argument, but don't cry foul if others fail to be convinced.

Labour didn't change European policy and couldn't.

The commons can't abolish the lords, they've tried in the past. Besides, only having a one house system would be an awful idea, the Americans have it spot on here in terms of system.

Voting on EU matters, or not, won't change the problems with the UK political system as per the original point 4.

The transatlantic trade agreement hasn't been passed so when was it vetoed?

Your politicians have had plenty of chances to get their house in order. The EU has never stopped them, they've never tried and you've all kept voting for the cunts.

 

[aguero93:20]

Ergo we need more houses around employment centres or more employment centres well away from the current employment centres.

Yes you do, that's domestic policy though.

I'll try to get the funding figures for public housing funding commons vs EU before Friday bud, it's my year end in work, so pretty busy. That alright?

 

[CityStu]

Yes you do, that's domestic policy though.

I'll try to get the funding figures for public housing funding commons vs EU before Friday bud, it's my year end in work, so pretty busy. That alright?

Agreed, but you need too know the numbers you're working with IMO.

Absolutely! There are far more important things in life than proving things to little old me.

 

[aguero93:20]

As a confirmed federalist why not just say this than trying to say being in the EU is better for our country? Imagine there's no countries, its easy if you try - john Lennon.

I'll admit to being a federalist with protected powers for local government.

By local government I mean councils though, not 500 or so pricks ruling a country of 64 million or so, that's feudalism.

 

[aguero93:20]

Agreed, but you need too know the numbers you're working with IMO.

Absolutely! There are far more important things in life than proving things to little old me.

I did say it was a gut feeling :) Although one based on experience.

 

[Metal Biker]

Labour didn't change European policy and couldn't.

The commons can't abolish the lords, they've tried in the past. Besides, only having a one house system would be an awful idea, the Americans have it spot on here in terms of system.

Voting on EU matters, or not, won't change the problems with the UK political system as per the original point 4.

The transatlantic trade agreement hasn't been passed so when was it vetoed?

Your politicians have had plenty of chances to get their house in order. The EU has never stopped them, they've never tried and you've all kept voting for the cunts.

Again, you're focusing on Britain changing EUROPEAN policies. I said that Britain would be in command of it's OWN policies and you stated that Britain leaving the EU would affect democracy in Britain.
Ergo, the question I put to you was "how does Britain NOT being in the EU, mean that BRITISH democracy on BRITISH laws and BRITISH matters, will be affected by not being a member of a union which will no longer have any influence on BRITISH democracy?"

I couldn't give a flying fig about Britain's influence on EU matters in the result of an exit, because we'll be keeping our own affairs in order. That was the point; the EU won't affect democracy in Britain as they'd have no influence on the democratic process or results. Political union would be abolished, trade unions would remain unaffected as nations like China, Mexico, the US, Canada, all trade with the EU, without any influence or say on EU policies either. (except for a few meaningless 'pandering' words by the Prez)

TTIP should be another glaring reason as to why being in the EU is a bad idea, as despite growing, vocal opposition to it, the EU delegates and Commission is doing everything is can to implement it as law. As of this moment TTIP is still being proposed, despite the opposition to it. You'd have thought they'd have taken the hint by now.

And what do you mean by 'cunts'? You mean the Conservatives? Well, given our system of voting parties in power (one which ALL parties abide by and are affected), the Conservatives persuaded more of the British electorate to vote for them rather than the Labour candidates. Unless you propose that a Labour party winning a similar 35% of votes of the electorate (meaning 65% were in favour of voting for someone else) is in some way more ethical?

I'm not the biggest fan of the Tories, goodness no, but this is how things are done for the time being. No winning party will be likely to change FPTP as they were elected upon that principle (Labour got in three times and didn't change it either) It might take a brave party to include it in their manifesto that if given a majority they'll change it, we'll have to wait and see. But let's not forget that voting turnout has been less than 70% for years. That's a lot of people who heard both manifestos and thought "bollocks to this, they're all cunts", so don't think it's a universal belief that Brits love Cam, but many won't do anything to change it.

The EU does not directly affect the result of a general election, no. But they are asking for more powers to be given to them to the point it renders a general election even more pointless. Since many MP's pander to the EU directives of integration, removing "temptation" shall we say, might make them focus more on helping Britain rather than just removing responsibilities and handing them to unelected officials in Brussels.

 

[aguero93:20]

you stated that Britain leaving the EU would affect democracy in Britain.

No, I didn't. I said it wouldn't change and implied you face a poor excuse for democracy with only a 2 house system, one unelected, first past the post in the other and no regional power, with endemic corruption.

 

[aguero93:20]

And what do you mean by 'cunts'?

98% or so of politicians. Let's put it this way, I sort of understand the support for trump despite despising the ****.

 

[aguero93:20]

TTIP should be another glaring reason as to why being in the EU is a bad idea, as despite growing, vocal opposition to it, the EU delegates and Commission is doing everything is can to implement it as law. As of this moment TTIP is still being proposed, despite the opposition to it. You'd have thought they'd have taken the hint by now.

Hasn't been passed, not really a point. Come back if it does.

 

[aguero93:20]

I couldn't give a flying fig about Britain's influence on EU matters in the result of an exit, because we'll be keeping our own affairs in order. That was the point; the EU won't affect democracy in Britain as they'd have no influence on the democratic process or results.

Point 2. Worry more about your influence on your own parliament.

 

[Metal Biker]

98% or so of politicians. Let's put it this way, I sort of understand the support for trump despite despising the ****.

So what do you propose instead?
If politicians are not your cup of tea, then who should be responsible to govern jurisdictions and the general day to day running of facilities? I don't know if you're against politicians in general or the idea of career politics itself. But someone has to do the job, and 'politicians' are the ones who put their names forward to do it. We elect the ones we feel are the best to do the job. I would like to hear your alternative suggestion for who we'd get to do the tasks required of politicians. Running a national budget isn't easy.

 

[aguero93:20]

Unless you propose that a Labour party winning a similar 35% of votes of the electorate (meaning 65% were in favour of voting for someone else) is in some way more ethic

I mean if 33% of the people across an area that can support 3 MPs think the same way they should have a chance at one.

*spits* :) Look at UKIPs results in the last election, is that a fair Democratic reflection within Britain? It's gerrymandering.

 

[aguero93:20]

So what do you propose instead?
If politicians are not your cup of tea, then who should be responsible to govern jurisdictions and the general day to day running of facilities? I don't know if you're against politicians in general or the idea of career politics itself. But someone has to do the job, and 'politicians' are the ones who put their names forward to do it. We elect the ones we feel are the best to do the job. I would like to hear your alternative suggestion for who we'd get to do the tasks required of politicians. Running a national budget isn't easy.

Real local power and direct democracy would rein the cunts in or at least introduce greater democracy and let's face it, the technology we have now allows for it. Better a national decision on a budget than one made by a failed teacher. At the very least we'd have accountability for our own decisions and real democracy. EU doesn't solve this problem but neither does leaving.

 

[CityStu]

Hasn't been passed, not really a point. Come back if it does.

THIS is the problem. What if we vote to stay in and then they pass TTIP? Do you think you'll get a second chance to vote out?

This summer you are going to vote to leave the EU or stay in the EU on its current trajectory, not to stay in as the EU is now.

That means you have to consider the EU's stance on things like TTIP and Turkey's membership when you vote.

 

[Helmet Cole]

I'll admit to being a federalist with protected powers for local government.

By local government I mean councils though, not 500 or so pricks ruling a country of 64 million or so, that's feudalism.

Fair enough