EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,050
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It is just growing resentment full stop, resentment that has been growing for 3 decades. The EU going away will mean the resentment will start turning in on itself and it will be the regions of the U.K., the poor etc who will face the full force of it. It's sad that what was once a society is now increasingly a bunch of different groups looking for people to blame. As decline continues the out voters will probably face a lot of the resentment.

Britain's decline is a century or more in the making and none of the long term decline, demographic challenges or anything else will change with exit. It's just exit will mean there is really no one else left to blame (that's once the Welsh scots and Irish have been binned and the poorer areas of England have stopped being subsidised)

Even if your opinion is true, which I very much doubt, your problem is the country is not being asked to vote on a century of decline nor the eco sociological reason for that demise, they being asked to stay in or leave a club of self centred european countries that has greed and self interest as it's core values. The problem for the intellectual left in these sort of arguments is that they over think and over debate them as they refuse to believe they can win the argument and still be defeated in the vote.
You are probably right on one point though the resentment is still growing.
 
are you suggesting that he is only pro European because he fears for his pension.
> I'm stating quite clearly that you can't know 100% what his motives are when he opens his mouth. However, he stands to lose financially if he ever were to criticise the EU.

What sort of person would go and work and sell the EU if they weren't pro European
> Irrelevant as you take no account of the fact that facts and situations can change over time, and people's views can.change accordingly.
 
Pity Scotland didn't vote out because now they could stay in the EU. They could have leached off them no problem and also got neighbourly investment from the "UK".

Small enough to benefit = stay in. Big enough to contribute = escape.

The irony for me is that the EU turned its back on Scotland leading up to the referendum. Scotland would have been kicked out of the EU if they went independant. That to me again showed the lack of integrety of the EU. All promise until it comes to the crunch.

Poor Scotland if they vote in but the uk votes out.

It's like a teenage love triangle.
 
Even if your opinion is true, which I very much doubt, your problem is the country is not being asked to vote on a century of decline nor the eco sociological reason for that demise, they being asked to stay in or leave a club of self centred european countries that has greed and self interest as it's core values. The problem for the intellectual left in these sort of arguments is that they over think and over debate them as they refuse to believe they can win the argument and still be defeated in the vote.
You are probably right on one point though the resentment is still growing.
I would suggest that greed and self interest are driving the out vote just as much as the in vote and are fundamental human issues which have been exacerbated since the 70's. They are certainly not a European problem they are a human problem. You somehow imply by those comments an evil self interested Europe with Britain an altruistic naiive bastion of goodness, in reality Britain has had a far less egalitarian and more "greedy" capitalism culture than much of Europe. Most would see that as a positive !

The resentment will grow even bigger after the vote, whatever the outcome and if not careful it will turn The UK into what the US (politically at least) has become - namely a divided blame culture. The US would survive that infinitely better than the UK as well as a younger, more diverse, better resources country can survive bitter politica stagnation more than most
 
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You should probably take any ones views with a pinch of salt to be fair. Boris does it for ambition, Nigel does it to create a reason to exist, the hedge funds support it because they make money out of misery and uncertainty, Kinnock supports it as both he and indeed the valleys got a lot of EU funding, newspapers support either side to sell more papers or for business interests. So Kinnock is no different to any other prominent person you will see talking about it.
 
Pity Scotland didn't vote out because now they could stay in the EU. They could have leached off them no problem and also got neighbourly investment from the "UK".

Small enough to benefit = stay in. Big enough to contribute = escape.

The irony for me is that the EU turned its back on Scotland leading up to the referendum. Scotland would have been kicked out of the EU if they went independant. That to me again showed the lack of integrety of the EU. All promise until it comes to the crunch.

Poor Scotland if they vote in but the uk votes out.

It's like a teenage love triangle.
It will break up the UK which will be very sad, The UK achieved its greatness very much because of shared achievement, without Welsh and Scottish industry and Scottish ingenuity Britain may never have been great - I for one will be very sorry when it breaks up leaving an England divided much like Italy is today.
 
I live and work in Scotland and the vast majority of SNP voters who wanted independence from the UK dont agree with their leader and her insistence that Scotland wants in.

They are voting out and cant believe a leader and party that believes in independence from Westminster and the rest of the UK then wants to jump into bed with Europe and be under some European parliaments ruling.
 
I live and work in Scotland and the vast majority of SNP voters who wanted independence from the UK dont agree with their leader and her insistence that Scotland wants in.

They are voting out and cant believe a leader and party that believes in independence from Westminster and the rest of the UK then wants to jump into bed with Europe and be under some European parliaments ruling.
Of course they are living a fantasy and expect a fantasy outcome . They were all to be rolling in oil gold by now with the oil kept and the debt left in London. If you live a fantasy world about independence from Englnd why wouldn't you do the same about the EU?
 
Apparently we're all going to be £4.300 worse off by 2030 if we vote out. Can't wait to see how this figure was arrived at. Their desperation knows no bounds.
 
It will break up the UK which will be very sad, The UK achieved its greatness very much because of shared achievement, without Welsh and Scottish industry and Scottish ingenuity Britain may never have been great - I for one will be very sorry when it breaks up leaving an England divided much like Italy is today.
Why couldn't Scotland have been independent, self governed and retained extremely strong ties with England and Wales? It's what's essentially keeping peace in Northern Ireland for the past 20 years.

If Britain exits the EU it will still be neighbours with Europe and a very good one. All will be fine. :-)
 
I live and work in Scotland and the vast majority of SNP voters who wanted independence from the UK dont agree with their leader and her insistence that Scotland wants in.

They are voting out and cant believe a leader and party that believes in independence from Westminster and the rest of the UK then wants to jump into bed with Europe and be under some European parliaments ruling.

Westminster could declare war on Europe and the Scots still wouldn't vote for independence whilst the oil price is at its current level
 
Apparently we're all going to be £4.300 worse off by 2030 if we vote out. Can't wait to see how this figure was arrived at. Their desperation knows no bounds.
It's an abuse of the Chancellors position to use propaganda. Gideon is just following big business instructions. No meaningful cost-benefit analysis has ever been done. What he should have said is The EU is not a recipe for prosperity,it is not a recipe for jobs. The EU just promotes the power of the state over citizens, and he knows that.
 
Westminster could declare war on Europe and the Scots still wouldn't vote for independence whilst the oil price is at its current level

I agree mate, its just funny watching them all squirm a little up here.
 
Why couldn't Scotland have been independent, self governed and retained extremely strong ties with England and Wales? It's what's essentially keeping peace in Northern Ireland for the past 20 years.

If Britain exits the EU it will still be neighbours with Europe and a very good one. All will be fine. :-)
I do hope so , I do hope that you're right if it comes to this but I think when Brexit doesn't cure long term ills or the vote is yes then the hunt will be on for who pays for the magic money that never comes. I do fear above all for the union and for the poorer parts of the U.K. I suppose I should fear more for NI than Scotland or Wales as ultimately if things go badly the consequences will be far worse
 
It's an abuse of the Chancellors position to use propaganda. Gideon is just following big business instructions. No meaningful cost-benefit analysis has ever been done. What he should have said is The EU is not a recipe for prosperity,it is not a recipe for jobs. The EU just promotes the power of the state over citizens, and he knows that.
Is that a comedy post - it is an abuse of power to use propaganda, I don't think I have seen a cabinet minister in my lifetime who hasn't used propaganda or followed instructions. As for following instructions of the biggest employers and contributors financially to the country then why wouldn't you? You could go near anywhere else in the entire world and with a few exceptions you would find that people in the EU are freer to be who they want and do what they want than just about anywhere else on the planet.
 
Sorry for the delay, some of us went up to that London for the w/e to watch the game.


Evidence it, demonstrate your knowledge. This keeps getting thrown out like a fact where really you are not even scratching the surface of the granularity of international trade. I posted a long while back why, in my opinion, your line of argument here is incredibly misinformed at best.

We run at a trade deficit to Europe, they sell more to us AND at a higher price than on the world market, we are the second biggest economy in the EU (And cash cow) and you want to put forward the idea they will not want to trade, international trade works for us, not against, there will be countries falling over themselves to get a shot at the UK markets.


I believe you're just picking up quotes from another forum you are registered with and going with it because it suits your world view. Further evidenced by your frequent references to minford and holding him up to be something other than an outdated anti (any) government free marketeer.


I am not a member of another forum where this subject is posted, While you try and belittle Minford because he holds opposing views, it was he, not you, that was consulted by the select
committee for some strange reason ( I think its because he is held as an expert of long standing)

If these are your views, evidence why. If you won't at least do that, then you can be put down as another loudly shouting charlatan who believes yet doesn't understand the message in his words. Which I think is more likely given your obsession with GS. Have you ever interacted with them, by the way? I have and do, frequently. there is a reason why they're seemingly everywhere it's not because of some conspiracy, it's because they hire the best people. I know you'll dismiss that comment, it's what you do. But you can rest assured that they put all of us on here to shame intellectually and through drive. What they achieve, I daresay, outweighs oir own by some distance. It really shouldn't be a surprise that some of them end up working for supranationals. The Greece thing was a debacle, of course, but your obsession only belittles any point you put across.

The last bit is so funny you should be on stage, the snide hint of insult is so little leftie.
Yes I have "Interacted" with GS, My early days were spent working for Slater Walker an they never impressed me or the boss, he never trusted them or the schemes they constantly tried to flog, far from being recruited for intellect its more for a complete lack of integrity, mistaken in your statement for "Drive", its no surprise they end up where they do because its a circus with the same people pulling the strings.

You say "The Greece thing" as if it was an isolated case, yet almost every financial scandal of the last few decades will have a connection that implicates GS & company connections, do your own research.
 
The problem is they are not facts. You find me some evidence that Intra-EU migration has depressed wages or lengthened the dole queues and I'll accept what you are saying. I already have my evidence to hand but I'll wait for yours first.


Some of us went to the game and made a long w/e of it.

Evidence over common sense ?, add 650,000 to the job/housing market and try and claim no effect, and this is just the numbers from three countries, there is evidence that bumble bee`s can not fly but as nobody told the bee`s the little buggers keep flying around.

The total numbers are in the millions, we have unemployment , housing shortages, overstretched services and a huge benefits bill, you show me evidence that includes the costs of their out of work/ in work benefits, plus the costs in benefits to the native population who are not doing those jobs.
Tell me where these people are living if not in houses our own people on waiting lists could have, what services are they not adding a burden to, because the ones who produce "The evidence" never get around to those figures
 
So we get a 15 year forecast we are supposed to believe from Politicians that cant even get what's going to happen in the next 12 months right!
 
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