EU referendum

[coleridge]

Murdock will get nowhere near the BBC, in or out.

Hope so. Almost 400m viewers worldwide now. Fearless reporting in the face of fascist oppression. @BowenBBC is a very brave man. Respect for speaking to the truth in the face of violent intimidation.

 

[Monkfish]

Murdock will get nowhere near the BBC, in or out.

His aim is not to get near it, it is to destroy it

 

[YPhrunts]

His aim is not to get near it, it is to destroy it

The only people that will destroy the BBC is the BBC itself. Too much obvious partiality will not go down well with the general public.

 

[SWP's back]

The only people that will destroy the BBC is the BBC itself. Too much obvious partiality will not go down well with the general public.

And they are all rag cunts.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It seems the polls alter if they are taken on telephone contacts or online contacts so it is illuminating to see the results of a poll where the audience is in eyeball contact and is not being manipulated by David Dimbleby using the BBC propaganda machine. Or the BBC giving more air time to one side.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/live-from-the-london-palladium-the-spectators-brexit-debate/

Daniel Hannah's speech is absolutely fantastic and spot on on this link . I would urge all on here either side of the debate to spend the 10 minutes or so to listen.

 

[coleridge]

Daniel Hannah's speech is absolutely fantastic and spot on on this link . I would urge all on here either side of the debate to spend the 10 minutes or so to listen.

I don't have time. Just tell me if he's a fascist **** or not?

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Daniel Hannah's speech is absolutely fantastic and spot on on this link . I would urge all on here either side of the debate to spend the 10 minutes or so to listen.

I got three lines in and read this

Why do we tie ourselves to the one part of the world that is not experiencing significant economic growth? The eurozone, incredibly, was the same size at the end of last year as it was in 2006.

Seems at odds with another Brexit propaganda machine the trollograph

The eurozone “defied pessimism” at the start of the year, as the currency bloc’s economic size finally reached a level it last hit in 2008.
Euro area GDP rose at a surprisingly strong 0.6pc in the three months to March, according to Eurostat. The pace of growth was twice as strong as that witnessed in the final quarter of last year.

Who is telling porkies?

 

[sir baconface]

So on one side of the argument you have The government, The Treasury, the IMF, Nato, Barack Obama, The leaders of the opposition and 39 chairmen/chief executives of the FTSE 100.

On the other side you have Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage and George Galloway.

Tough one that.

Eat shit. A hundred billion flies can't be wrong.

 

[sir baconface]

I read today that Albania, Macedonia and other poor ex-communist states will be next to join, bringing a pool of 80 million more potential migrants.

Any truth?

 

[Chippy_boy]

That's an interesting interpretation. So what you are saying is that the remain camp are not really that bothered and can't be arsed to go out and listen to their speakers?

Sort of. The status quo is that we are in the EU and therefore if you are happy with being in the EU, you are less motivated to be out there and engaged in the debate than if you are not happy with the status quo. Outers are inherently more likely to be out there ranting about it. If you want to get a more accurate poll, you should just knock on doors.

Somebody said to me recently that you can make your decision on whether you see yourself as an employee and like to be ordered around and told what you have to do i.e. be nannied. Or see yourself as an employer and want the freedom to make your own decisions or to apply a bit of initiative and plough your own furrow.
It's a simplification I know but it boils down to whether you are a risk taker or like to be molly coddled and feel secure in your subservience. Oddly enough the farmers have surprised me by going against the recommendation of their union and are reported to support Brexit by about 58%. Now there is a group that have had the molly coddling for 47 years and are fed up with it. They want to take risks and use their initiative which they cannot do under the EU yoke. That has surprised me more than anything else.

That's an interesting observation, but perhaps an over simplistic one? What about people who hate being bossed about, but hate financial hardship too? There's lots of dividing lines in the debate, but for me certainly one of the choices is between increased "sovereignty" (and what does that actually mean for me, day to day) vs financial sacrifice (since I am personally convinced that we will be economically worse off out, at least for a decade or so if not in perpetuity).

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I don't have time. Just tell me if he's a fascist **** or not?

Well I have never met him to be honest but I don't think so.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

So on one side of the argument you have The government, The Treasury, the IMF, Nato, Barack Obama, The leaders of the opposition and 39 chairmen/chief executives of the FTSE 100.

On the other side you have Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage and George Galloway.

Tough one that.[/QU
You missed Vladimir Putin off the second list!

 

[coleridge]

Well I have never met him to be honest but I don't think so.

Then I'll give it a listen as time allows.

 

[coleridge]

 

[EalingBlue2]

The only people that will destroy the BBC is the BBC itself. Too much obvious partiality will not go down well with the general public.

If only that were true....,,

 

[EalingBlue2]

I read today that Albania, Macedonia and other poor ex-communist states will be next to join, bringing a pool of 80 million more potential migrants.

Any truth?

Potential migrants or potential markets. It is markets like these where the real potential for growth exists and this is why they are wanted.

 

[blueinsa]

Potential migrants or potential markets. It is markets like these where the real potential for growth exists and this is why they are wanted.

Give over pmsl.

 

[EalingBlue2]

That's an interesting interpretation. So what you are saying is that the remain camp are not really that bothered and can't be arsed to go out and listen to their speakers? But yes I'm in general agreement with you that a lot of voters don't have the wherewithal to deal with all the information. I'm struggling myself but I'm hanging my hat on less than half a dozen issues.

Somebody said to me recently that you can make your decision on whether you see yourself as an employee and like to be ordered around and told what you have to do i.e. be nannied. Or see yourself as an employer and want the freedom to make your own decisions or to apply a bit of initiative and plough your own furrow.
It's a simplification I know but it boils down to whether you are a risk taker or like to be molly coddled and feel secure in your subservience. Oddly enough the farmers have surprised me by going against the recommendation of their union and are reported to support Brexit by about 58%. Now there is a group that have had the molly coddling for 47 years and are fed up with it. They want to take risks and use their initiative which they cannot do under the EU yoke. That has surprised me more than anything else.

Someone said to me recently you will make your vote on whether you are afraid of the future and believe in globalisation and human progress or not.

One side believes that Victorian times can return, that Britannia can rule the waves again, that clocks can be turned back, that human rights, workers rights, free movement etc aren't necessary etc

The other sees the UK realistically for what it is and what it's place in the world is and sees human progress for what it is.

As for risk taking it has always been a question amid calculated risk, most risk taking is just stupidity as when the risk outweighs any potential reward it really serves no good purpose .

So yes you can listen when told not to try to prod electricity wires with a metal pole or you can think to yourself 'mmmm electricity wires doesn't exist in the 1830's and I'm a risk taker who never listens and fry yourself.

 

[EalingBlue2]

And they are all rag cunts.

The BBC or general public? Unfortunately you could well mean both and may lot be wrong.

 

[sir baconface]

Potential migrants or potential markets. It is markets like these where the real potential for growth exists and this is why they are wanted.

If the sole measure is financial benefit, then yes. At what population level do we feel a teensy bit overcrowded, infrastructure over-stretched and the environment spoiled: 80 million, 100 million?