EU referendum

[Helmet Cole]

I think both campaigns are being entirely led by people from the 1% acting in self interest. My vote is self interested in the sense that I will vote in the interests of my values and the regions of the U.K. That I care about most

What do you honestly enjoy most at the moment about living in the UK?

 

[KenTheLandlord]

I have quoted the same post from previous pages. The cases for remaining in fall on deaf ears.

They were done about 200 pages ago.

And your answer to this is to just carry on, brilliant, let's just toe the line and take it up the arse. History is full of people who bucked the trend, you are the type of guy a few thousand years ago who would stay in his nice warm cave because venturing over the hill is a risk, it might be cold there or we might fall off the end of the world. Let's stay here and just moan about it instead.

Worst analogy ever.
The guy who stayed in his cave was the UKipper saying everything is dandy here, dont listen to the man from over hill. The tribe then went over the hill the remainers thought the people over the hill were ok and were happy to mingle with and swap ideas. The Brexit people are the ones who then thought Mr Kipper had some good points, i will stay civil but i want to go home.

 

[hilts]

They were done about 200 pages ago.



Worst analogy ever.
The guy who stayed in his cave was the UKipper saying everything is dandy here, dont listen to the man from over hill. The tribe then went over the hill the remainers thought the people over the hill were ok and were happy to mingle with and swap ideas. The Brexit people are the ones who then thought Mr Kipper had some good points, i will stay civil but i want to go home.

It's posts like this that make me think fuck it some people are just that stupid that they get what they deserve, in your left wing view of the world you have decided that rather than the nasty tories making the decisions you prefer the Eu to put obstacles in the way, you are such a free thinking anarchist that you prefer the status quo, if we have two levels of self serving bureaucrats one lot may have the the odd policy you agree with. You should live in Notting hill and take to the streets in protest.

Unless it's a bit nippy outside then you can put the fire on, have a cuppa and post on the internet how those in power are taking advantage of the common man.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

It's posts like this that make me think fuck it some people are just that stupid that they get what they deserve, in your left wing view of the world you have decided that rather than the nasty tories making the decisions you prefer the Eu to put obstacles in the way, you are such a free thinking anarchist that you prefer the status quo, if we have two levels of self serving bureaucrats one lot may have the the odd policy you agree with. You should live in Notting hill and take to the streets in protest.

Unless it's a bit nippy outside then you can put the fire on, have a cuppa and post on the internet how those in power are taking advantage of the common man.

Done well there, managed over 100 words of complete irrelevance.

 

[Bill]

Yes that's all very well but you don't go anywhere near immigration, population density and land mass.
For anyone in any doubt of just how out of control immigration to the UK has become, please look at the following:

England's population density is 413 people per square kilometre, European countries would have to take in the following numbers of migrants to make them to the same:-

Austria 26.4 million
Denmark 12.4 million
France 162.3 million
Germany 65.6 million
Greece 42.8 million
Italy 64.7 million
Poland 90.5 million
Romania 79.4 million
Spain 162.1 million
Sweden 176.3 million

Do you have kids? When you are struggling to get them into your local school you can comfort yourself that the EU can take on Google and Microsoft.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mber-children-European-migrants-families.html

When you find yourself struggling to get a quick hospital appointment for either yourself or your family and find yourself in a queue behind non english speaking migrants you can comfort yourself with the thought that you could go and work freely in Europe (even though you could have done that even before we entered the Common Market).

When you are stuck in a never ending queue of traffic as most people already are in and around London and Kent you can comfort yourself with the alternative frustration that we cannot export criminals because of European human 'rights'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ple-with-very-poor-immigration-histories.html

Nice that you missed out some of the negatives...loss of fishing rights or the fact that we subsidise countries like Poland who contribute 3.526 billion Euro but receive 17.436 billion Euro each year (2014 figures). Contemplate those few things while you work out how to ensure your democracy.

While you contemplate peace in Europe you might consider how Greece is going to survive as a country. You might worry about it's relationship with Turkey and what that might lead to when Turkish citizens get a free pass into Greece. Peace? You're having a giraffe. And you want to be a member when that kicks off?

And god forbid if you ever want to buy a house in Kent or London. While you're pleading for a mortgage you can contemplate these wonderful European civil engineering projects you speak of paid for out of a proportion of your taxes.

nailed it.

 

[SWP's back]

Have you not considered the short term consequences to the world economy and Europe of a crumbling EU, 2008 would be small time and the suffering would be huge. A break up of the EU could occur without disaster over a period of time in an organised and coordinated way, so it is not inevitably a catastrophe . But If what you say happened a crumbling , a set of dominoes , then you would have some big economies defaulting, some periods of utter chaos both currency wise and trade wise.

Not that many EU economies would recover from the deficits near term -it I suspect even the UK would become Japan as the government would have to write off huge loans, underpin banking, address huge currency issues and prop up the economy. Btw this is not saying Brexit causes this alone but saying if it causes a domino effect that rips apart the EU and the Euro in a panicked way , that it will.

The U.K. Has a 1.7 trillion dollar debt, possibly has another 3,4 or 5 trillion in pension liability of treated correctly, simply put more recession, more bad debt from Europe and a prolonged economic crisis would be hugely damaging.

You prefer glib one liners, little internet feuds and playing to your internet friends, than taking the issue seriously it doesn't do you justice.

If it come crumbling down most of the things in this thread won't be issues of any materiality.

And you prefer the status quo as you don't have the balls for change.

 

[SWP's back]

Facts so often are, our system of voting is, but...... That's democracy it was voted on and people chose this system

Also untrue. There was no true PR alternative.

The fact is (as pointed out to you by several people), UKIP were the third most popular party at the last general election.

 

[SWP's back]

It´s good to know that big business, the IMF and the White House have our best interests at heart. First time for everything.

And Goldman Sachs...

 

[cibaman]

And you prefer the status quo as you don't have the balls for change.

Neither do I. Mainly because I have absolutely no confidence in the competence of the politicians who would be leading us post Brexit. My balls occasionally feel up to a venture into the brave new world outside the EU, but they shrivel up when I see the people ""leading" the Leave campaign and who would be in charge of shaping the UK's relationship with Europe and the rest of the world post Brexit.

 

[snorky]

Yes that's all very well but you don't go anywhere near immigration, population density and land mass.
For anyone in any doubt of just how out of control immigration to the UK has become, please look at the following:

England's population density is 413 people per square kilometre, European countries would have to take in the following numbers of migrants to make them to the same:-

Austria 26.4 million
Denmark 12.4 million
France 162.3 million
Germany 65.6 million
Greece 42.8 million
Italy 64.7 million
Poland 90.5 million
Romania 79.4 million
Spain 162.1 million
Sweden 176.3 million

Do you have kids? When you are struggling to get them into your local school you can comfort yourself that the EU can take on Google and Microsoft.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mber-children-European-migrants-families.html

When you find yourself struggling to get a quick hospital appointment for either yourself or your family and find yourself in a queue behind non english speaking migrants you can comfort yourself with the thought that you could go and work freely in Europe (even though you could have done that even before we entered the Common Market).

When you are stuck in a never ending queue of traffic as most people already are in and around London and Kent you can comfort yourself with the alternative frustration that we cannot export criminals because of European human 'rights'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ple-with-very-poor-immigration-histories.html

Nice that you missed out some of the negatives...loss of fishing rights or the fact that we subsidise countries like Poland who contribute 3.526 billion Euro but receive 17.436 billion Euro each year (2014 figures). Contemplate those few things while you work out how to ensure your democracy.

While you contemplate peace in Europe you might consider how Greece is going to survive as a country. You might worry about it's relationship with Turkey and what that might lead to when Turkish citizens get a free pass into Greece. Peace? You're having a giraffe. And you want to be a member when that kicks off?

And god forbid if you ever want to buy a house in Kent or London. While you're pleading for a mortgage you can contemplate these wonderful European civil engineering projects you speak of paid for out of a proportion of your taxes.

Spot on for me

 

[CityStu]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...cial-migrant-figures-and-the-truth-is-as-wid/

 

[EalingBlue2]

And you prefer the status quo as you don't have the balls for change.

Balls are needed to stay the course , they are needed to change , they are needed to stick or to twist. You make the call that is on balance right. Unreasonable risk is stupidity. If you think change for changes sake is what comes with balls you will waste a lot of time and make wrong decisions in life. If you go for change when the upside is more than the downside them you are taking the right beta.

Frankly voting with an eye to the outcomes is a far better thing to do than voting with your balls but that's up to you!

 

[EalingBlue2]

Also untrue. There was no true PR alternative.

The fact is (as pointed out to you by several people), UKIP were the third most popular party at the last general election.

It was a very bad option I agree and was designed to ensure a vote in favour of the status quo. Cameron outmanoeuvred clegg. They were third and got little to show for it.

 

[EalingBlue2]

What do you honestly enjoy most at the moment about living in the UK?

The beaches, the sun, on this little British island

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Yes that's all very well but you don't go anywhere near immigration, population density and land mass.
For anyone in any doubt of just how out of control immigration to the UK has become, please look at the following:

England's population density is 413 people per square kilometre, European countries would have to take in the following numbers of migrants to make them to the same:-

Austria 26.4 million
Denmark 12.4 million
France 162.3 million
Germany 65.6 million
Greece 42.8 million
Italy 64.7 million
Poland 90.5 million
Romania 79.4 million
Spain 162.1 million
Sweden 176.3 million

Do you have kids? When you are struggling to get them into your local school you can comfort yourself that the EU can take on Google and Microsoft.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mber-children-European-migrants-families.html

When you find yourself struggling to get a quick hospital appointment for either yourself or your family and find yourself in a queue behind non english speaking migrants you can comfort yourself with the thought that you could go and work freely in Europe (even though you could have done that even before we entered the Common Market).

When you are stuck in a never ending queue of traffic as most people already are in and around London and Kent you can comfort yourself with the alternative frustration that we cannot export criminals because of European human 'rights'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ple-with-very-poor-immigration-histories.html

Nice that you missed out some of the negatives...loss of fishing rights or the fact that we subsidise countries like Poland who contribute 3.526 billion Euro but receive 17.436 billion Euro each year (2014 figures). Contemplate those few things while you work out how to ensure your democracy.

While you contemplate peace in Europe you might consider how Greece is going to survive as a country. You might worry about it's relationship with Turkey and what that might lead to when Turkish citizens get a free pass into Greece. Peace? You're having a giraffe. And you want to be a member when that kicks off?

And god forbid if you ever want to buy a house in Kent or London. While you're pleading for a mortgage you can contemplate these wonderful European civil engineering projects you speak of paid for out of a proportion of your taxes.

Crazy figures, thanks for posting that.

 

[Helmet Cole]

The beaches, the sun, on this little British island

?!

 

[EalingBlue2]

?!

I live in a Former colony a long way away? I thought you were joking in the question

 

[AlgarveBlu]

His reasoning is essentially FUD. We don't know what will happen so we presume we can't do it alone. It is quite as easy to say that we don't know what will happen so it will turn out much better. You can't fight an election based on "I dunno lol", which is why Brexit is surging ahead. They have a clear and decisive message which is resonating with people because it's speaking to them on issues they care about with a clarity of vision. The Remain campaign is speaking to them on issues they don't care about and muddying the waters.

The campaign should be ran on four key points that should be stressed much much more:

• The EU doesn't "take" money out of the UK, the whole of Europe puts into a central pot and that money is then spent across the whole of Europe which includes the UK. The yearly EU spending in the UK is about £8bn which is less than we give out but the net difference of £4bn a year. To put this into context, the UK Government spend is £795bn a year. That's about 0.5% of the budget. To put this into even better context, if the UK national expenditure budget was the length of a football pitch from goaline to goaline, our net deficit to the EU wouldn't get you to the penalty spot. In fact it wouldn't get you out of the six yard box. It would get you about a foot down the pitch.
• The EU do NOT spend on social programs, defence or anything like that. In fact the EU barely spends any money at all, 80% of the budget is spent by national Governments. What it does is "sponsored investment spending" where it gives the national Government a certain amount of money to complete a project that must be spent on infrastructure that will help create growth. Such as providing super-fast broadband to rural England which was funded by the EU or farming subsides which are a major part of the EU investment in the UK. Those people who y'know, grow the food that we eat at a loss due to supermarket pricing.
• The EU employs 55,000 civil servants to manage a confederation of 500 million people. The UK on the other hand employs 440,000 civil servants to manage a country of 70 million. 6% of the budget of the EU goes to administration which includes not just Brussels but paying for every administration in every national Government of its members. This is more than inline with comparable organisations.
• New members who join the EU in recent years all have massive agricultural section but underdeveloped industry and infrastructure. This means that they put lots of food into the system and need lots of EU firms to come in and build up their country. A massive amount of British firms benefit from EU membership and win contracts within the EU.

Those are important points that address many of the concerns of people. We're not spending an awful lot on the EU, the EU is only investing infrastructure projects, the "gravy train" imagine is wrong, and new members joining the EU are almost always highly beneficial to the UK due to more resources in the Common Agricultural Policy to balance crops and bringing a wealth of contracts for British firms to compete and win with.

You know that people point at Norway as a model for the UK? They completely ran out of butter a few years back, at a national level and had to slash import duty by 80% so that they could still have toast in the morning. This created a black market butter business in which a pack of Lurpack was going for £50 each.. This doesn't happen in the UK, we don't get shortages on basic supplies because the Common Agricultural Policy ensures that all the farms across Europe instead of competing with each other and putting them out of business are working together to ensure the food supply stays within decent limits. Norway is not a part of the Common Agricultural Policy because they're not part of the EU.

I will echo what helmut said - one of the very few posts I've read that analyses the dynamics of the eu with facts attached to it although I do dispute some points. Assuming the outcome is remain it would be a lot easier to live with for all if the majority who voted to stay applied this same level of research and drew their own conclusions. Alas the vast majority are on a copy and paste exercise from one of the establishment figures and the same applies to a lot in the Brexit campaign, I think papers like the express don't help and if Marianne Le pen comes over to endorse the campaign it's all over in my opinion.

I do hope you get the eu you envisage but unfortunately I doubt it...

 

[Helmet Cole]

I live in a Former colony a long way away? I thought you were joking in the question

I take it you mean the us or oz? I'm surprised you have such a strongly help opinion on UK EU membership if that's the case tbh. Were you from the UK originally?

 

[whp.blue]

I take it you mean the us or oz? I'm surprised you have such a strongly help opinion on UK EU membership if that's the case tbh. Were you from the UK originally?

easy to have a strong opinion when you don't have to live with the consequences