EU referendum

[Metal Biker]

No. A party that stands against that and looks to pro actively contribute into making the EU work - I can't see why we have a party that turns its back, doesn't listen, heckles and acts like twats when they could pushing to make reforms better for our nation and the EU.

Because that's exactly the point of the party; it wants to end Britain's membership and halt any further integration with the EU. It wants the EU at its weakest because UKIP on a whole does not agree with the idea of the EU as an organisation. Why would they suddenly decide to want to help the EU? They don't want to help it, they want to shut it down entirely. So logically, why would a party that is based solely on reducing the powers in Brussels decide to co-operate and work with the organisation? They seek to dismantle and disrupt the EU from within and what's more the British public who voted in the european elections have elected them to do just that.

Is it hypocritical that UKIP MEP's accept EU wages or EU grants? No! Because in their view it's better the money is 'wasted' on their wages rather than being put towards an incentive that would make the EU stronger. I really don't understand why some people still don't get this. They've tried for reforms, they've tried to point out the problems within the EU and they just get ignored, heckled and ridiculed by the pro-EU sections of the European Parliament. The EU project is only half complete; its seeking full integration, an end to nations, one culture of Europeans, with an EU flag, EU anthem and EU Army to boot all backed by the Euro currency. The EU won't reform because it doesn't want to reform. Some people support this, some don't and it's not just in Britain where this view of wanting to leave is shared. Eurosceptism is the highest its ever been and it is down to the EU's stubborn arrogant refusal to listen to the demands of the people of Europe and its aggressiveness in trying to create a "United States of Europe".

 

[BigJoe#1]

What laws have the EU forced on us which has made this country so bad ?

What laws have the EU forced on us which has made this country so bad ?

Well, the fact we cannot scrap VAT on energy charges is something they should not concern themselves with.

Tampon tax.

Motor wattage on vacuum cleaners, and soon to be kettles and hair dryers. Means we spend longer doing the same amount of work using ad much if not more energy.

The recent piece on fish packaging, firms had to spend thousands of pounds putting "This product contains fish" on fish products.

.... to name but a few recent cases.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Well, the fact we cannot scrap VAT on energy charges is something they should not concern themselves with.

Tampon tax.

Motor wattage on vacuum cleaners, and soon to be kettles and hair dryers. Means we spend longer doing the same amount of work using ad much if not more energy.

The recent piece on fish packaging, firms had to spend thousands of pounds putting "This product contains fish" on fish products.

.... to name but a few recent cases.

That's it ? We risk chaos , unemployment, a banking crisis etc to protect our rights to have more powerful vacuums or packets without fish mentioned on them. Both of which, an equity barmy Whitehall mandarin would probably have requested anyway.

 

[crazyadi]

That's it ? We risk chaos , unemployment, a banking crisis etc to protect our rights to have more powerful vacuums or packets without fish mentioned on them. Both of which, an equity barmy Whitehall mandarin would probably have requested anyway.

Yes but a whitehall mandarin didnt request it did they. There are a lot of maybes re leaving, maybe there will become millions of more unemployed, maybe it will ruin the economy, maybe the housing market will implode, nothing really concrete as to what will happen if we leave.

On the other hand there is a concrete certainty that there will be ever closer union, a move to one nation of europe, one currency one army and no way back. and MAYBE it will all still be controlled by unelected idiots and i for one dont want any part of that.

Serious question to all the inners what is it that makes you want to give up your country?

 

[EalingBlue2]

Yes but a whitehall mandarin didnt request it did they. There are a lot of maybes re leaving, maybe there will become millions of more unemployed, maybe it will ruin the economy, maybe the housing market will implode, nothing really concrete as to what will happen if we leave.

On the other hand there is a concrete certainty that there will be ever closer union, a move to one nation of europe, one currency one army and no way back. and MAYBE it will all still be controlled by unelected idiots and i for one dont want any part of that.

Serious question to all the inners what is it that makes you want to give up your country?

I don't I want to protect Wales , the north from a London centred US style perpetual government based only on the pursuit of wealth governed only by value I dislike.

I don't see a monolithic simplistic state where being British means you govern in the interests of the British and where my nationality determines if my decisions are good. I don't even believe that sovereignty exists line Brexit paints. I look at every aspect of my life and that of most of the west and see complete entanglement and interdependence, economically, communications wise, militarily, legally,socially etc. The Britain you speak of and the dream you speak of was dealt a fatal wound centuries ago and in a great part due to the global empires and industrial revolution we drove.

The country , the people will be who they are no matter what man made invention of a government rules over them and will always be a huge diverse collection of interests served no better by mandarins in London or politicians in London than those from Brussells

 

[Chancy Termites]

Devolution , all the main media groups and Boris Johnson gave received EU funding so they must not be listened too so have no credibility as well as UKIP. It's hilarious just how low Brexit will go with normal everyday things to paint It as some kind of corruption to hoodwink voters

You scraped all the way through the bottom of the barrel hundreds of pages ago and now you're left with nothing more than straw men and conflation.

That's why you've now reached the point where you're trying to equate the way the EU parliament is funded, with the restrictive terms written into gagging clauses in ex commissioners' pensions.

 

[TonyM]

If outside the EU could Sky have kept its monopoly on the prem?

Games on tv were cheaper then. The monopoly may not have benefited competitive businesses but it didn't hurt the consumer. That law was unnecessary and also lead to crazy inflation within the game. Was it the EUs fault?

 

[BlueHammer85]

Well, the fact we cannot scrap VAT on energy charges is something they should not concern themselves with.

Tampon tax.

Motor wattage on vacuum cleaners, and soon to be kettles and hair dryers. Means we spend longer doing the same amount of work using ad much if not more energy.

The recent piece on fish packaging, firms had to spend thousands of pounds putting "This product contains fish" on fish products.

.... to name but a few recent cases.

Tampon Tax and wattage use on Hoovers.

Frightening

 

[BigJoe#1]

That's it ? We risk chaos , unemployment, a banking crisis etc to protect our rights to have more powerful vacuums or packets without fish mentioned on them. Both of which, an equity barmy Whitehall mandarin would probably have requested anyway.

As. Opposed to being directed by unaccountable leaders, (the EU commissioners), being forced to travel at the speed of the slowest economies (Greece, Romania, soon to be (possibly) Turkey), being held to ransom by countries that are unaffected by the issues in question so they can get something that is against our own interests, trying to run a fair democracy when there are just too many stakeholders and it's just too bureaucratic, trying to run a one size fits all economy and currency when everyone knows it just doesn't work, can you really expect the Greks, Bulgarians, Romanians etc to pay the same price for goods and services as the Germans for example?

The examples I quoted were given in direct response to a direct question from Bluehammer85 and are not exclusive.

I worked on a DFT projectaround the implementation of Digital Tachograohs and Graduated Fixed Penalties at the roadside. Both projects were over 5 years late in delivering, the main reason why....? Translations. It took over 5 years and countless meetings in Brussels and various other countries to agree on wording and then the translations fron English into their own language which when translated back to English often meant something other than what it was meant too, sometimes the opposite. It was a joke. And you seriously think we could run a state and economy on that basis? I don't think so!

 

[BigJoe#1]

Tampon Tax and wattage use on Hoovers.

Frightening

Well you did ask and there will be many many more examples of futile impositions that don't benefit us as a nation.... Probably took the EU years and millions of pounds to implement those decisions upon us. Decisions which have nothing to do with EU except that they make it their business. Would rather be responsible fir our own economy and make our own decisions in our own interests thanks very much!

Again I ask, do you think we should be in the Euro and working toward total political integration... To the inners?

 

[Bill]

Let's just fuck email off and see how do. Close our borders,stash our own cash. Grow our own fucking veg.

 

[stonerblue]

Let's just fuck email off and see how do. Close our borders,stash our own cash. Grow our own fucking veg.

So retiring to Italy is off the agenda now?
And i hate fuckin veg.

 

[gh_mcfc]

Better level of debate on Bluemoon. than you get on TV

 

[Bill]

So retiring to Italy is off the agenda now?
And i hate fuckin veg.

Nope. I'd be there now but my wife won't leave the kids and grandkids. Wimp.
They would love coming over for weeks on end.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Well, the fact we cannot scrap VAT on energy charges is something they should not concern themselves with.

Tampon tax.

Motor wattage on vacuum cleaners, and soon to be kettles and hair dryers. Means we spend longer doing the same amount of work using ad much if not more energy.

The recent piece on fish packaging, firms had to spend thousands of pounds putting "This product contains fish" on fish products.

.... to name but a few recent cases.

The Treasury has argued that it cannot make changes without the approval of other EU member states, but this is not strictly true. Under EU rules it cannot unilaterally scrap VAT on a product, but it can slash rates to as low as five per cent and it certainly had no problem cutting the standard rate from 17.5 to 15 per cent last autumn as part of its economic recovery plan.
Seems like the British telling outright lies there, trying to hide the bullshit under the EU carpet.

The kettles and hair dryers are a working group to look at whether kettles, toasters, bread makers and hairdryers among them - should also be regulated. So no soon to be.

Would that be the Tampon Tax that has been repealed? Completely irrelevant as an point.

Was not just fish though, the labelling also failed to mention it could contain milk, egg, mustard or wheat. Bundle of laughs if you have an allergy.

Cases that can be destroyed as they are either mistruths or the UK government trying to land the shit on the EU carpet.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I'm loving the British media. This was an article on a white exodus from London in an upcoming BBC documentary



Then read the actual percentages.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/14/peopl...f-immigrants-bbc-documentary-reveals-5882272/

LMAO. They divided up other ethnic groups into "Indian", "Pakistani", etc to create a technical plurality of 17% of white Brits. A lot less striking than the truth: 17% white British, 12% mostly eastern European, 38% south Asian, 20% Afro-Caribbean.

It's basically becoming a zero-sum game between the media/globalist forces and native populations.

Do you honestly not see why a Hindu Indian, a Pakistani Moslem and a Punjabi Sikh might not all be Bucketed together. For interest are you of immigrant or indigenous descent?

 

[EalingBlue2]

You scraped all the way through the bottom of the barrel hundreds of pages ago and now you're left with nothing more than straw men and conflation.

That's why you've now reached the point where you're trying to equate the way the EU parliament is funded, with the restrictive terms written into gagging clauses in ex commissioners' pensions.

No I am pointing out what an utter non story it is and how utterly irellevant it is .

 

[CityStu]

My main worry isn't the existing laws and regs, although several small business owners favour Brexit because of restrictive legislation that they must follow and is obviously sector specific and I wouldn't know or understand why different regs were restrictive. Happy to trust them though.

My issue is simply that the EU can create laws that supersede the UK government's laws. Unlike our government, the EU commission that creates the laws isn't accountable (we can't vote for or against them) and commissioners don't have a fixed term. At the moment, that's not necessarily too bad - some EU laws are a bit petty but I doubt I'm particularly affected by them day to day. It may well be though that 10, 20, 30 years down the line, those in the EU commission are very different and they're pushing for very different laws that do affect me. We haven't been allowed a vote on the EU for 40 years, so consider what the state of the EU could be in 2056. It's impossible to know that it won't take a turn for the drastically worse.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Cases that can be destroyed as they are either mistruths or the UK government trying to land the shit on the EU carpet.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings Ken old chap but, this is most definitely a two way street. I acknowledge that do you.

Still on the balance of probability and likelihood, I choose out - as is my prerogative!

 

[EalingBlue2]

My main worry isn't the existing laws and regs, although several small business owners favour Brexit because of restrictive legislation that they must follow and is obviously sector specific and I wouldn't know or understand why different regs were restrictive. Happy to trust them though.

My issue is simply that the EU can create laws that supersede the UK government's laws. Unlike our government, the EU commission that creates the laws isn't accountable (we can't vote for or against them) and commissioners don't have a fixed term. At the moment, that's not necessarily too bad - some EU laws are a bit petty but I doubt I'm particularly affected by them day to day. It may well be though that 10, 20, 30 years down the line, those in the EU commission are very different and they're pushing for very different laws that do affect me. We haven't been allowed a vote on the EU for 40 years, so consider what the state of the EU could be in 2056. It's impossible to know that it won't take a turn for the drastically worse.

I wouldn't even be worrying about 2056 the exponential technology changes, shift of power to Asia , decline of Western Europe and Asia will make concerns about this sort of thing utterly irellevant as if you think sovereignty now is weak it is only going to get weaker. You cannot turn back the tide of history