EU referendum

[blueonblue]

You should be asking will the EU continue to push it with Russia without the British armed forces, we have the ONLY effective fighting force in Europe an thats why they want us in their EU army.

You talk about risks, if you give those fools in Brussels the illusion that they can stand up to Russia they may just chance it.

So ask yourself if you trust the EU with the lives of our armed forces and control of our nucular capabilities ?

 

[Monkfish]

They keep their mouths shut because they know they're putting being a few quid a week better off ahead of major issues like sovereignty and democracy and probably find it a difficult position to justify.

ok you got me, I don't care enough about curvy bananas or whatever it is your upset about this week, selfishly I have put the continued welfare and prosperity of myself and my loved ones above banana regulations, if only I could be as principled about this as you

 

[Gelsons Dad]

ok you got me, I don't care enough about curvy bananas or whatever it is your upset about this week, selfishly I have put the continued welfare and prosperity of myself and my loved ones above banana regulations, if only I could be as principled about this as you

Fuck the bananas its self determination that you are happy to sell for a couple of quid which will go to big Corp.

 

[Metal Biker]

No one was moaning about Europe 35 of those years.. we have had peace and no major wars - yes you can point at Bosnia etc, but relatively Europe has been stable and united.

Because it was seen as an economic union, not a political one like it is now and wants to further become.
I accept some people want a European Superstate, but are others willing to accept that there are many others who do NOT want such a monster?

You say we need to stand against the likes of Russia and China but haven't you thought that for Europe to develop an "EU Army", which the EU is already in stages of building, it could be interpreted as an antagonistic, aggressive move to both those countries?

Russia is not interested in the affairs of Europe anymore, but what are they to think when a huge army is being built on their doorstep, threatening to intervene in Russian foreign policy akin to Crimea? The EU did nothing except huff and grumble but if there had been an EU Army in place ready to 'liberate' the Crimeans, we could easily have seen the situation deteriorate and have ended up with another war on the continent. An EU Army threatens peace in Europe, not protecting it as it first assumes Russia is 'the bad guy' and that only a big force can 'put Russia into line'.

I'd have thought the lessons learned of the Cold War would have been hindered to by now.

 

[stonerblue]

Fuck the bananas its self determination that you are happy to sell for a couple of quid which will go to big Corp.

Self determination? Really?
Our government shits all over us already. Take away any checks and balances the EU does and the fuckers would have a field day.

 

[mcfc1632]

then your an imbecile who should not be allowed a vote in anything, can we ban this fool from any player of the month poll?

Perhaps such attitudes are the reason he is persuaded.

There is a degree of contempt being shown across the board to the leave position/voters

From the EU leaders throughout that farcical 'negotiation', followed by;

From Cameron, Osborne doing a total about face and now treating us all like children

And from some members of the public.......

 

[mcfc1632]

Because it was seen as an economic union, not a political one like it is now and wants to further become.
I accept some people want a European Superstate, but are others willing to accept that there are many others who do NOT want such a monster?

You say we need to stand against the likes of Russia and China but haven't you thought that for Europe to develop an "EU Army", which the EU is already in stages of building, it could be interpreted as an antagonistic, aggressive move to both those countries?

Russia is not interested in the affairs of Europe anymore, but what are they to think when a huge army is being built on their doorstep, threatening to intervene in Russian foreign policy akin to Crimea? The EU did nothing except huff and grumble but if there had been an EU Army in place ready to 'liberate' the Crimeans, we could easily have seen the situation deteriorate and have ended up with another war on the continent. An EU Army threatens peace in Europe, not protecting it as it first assumes Russia is 'the bad guy' and that only a big force can 'put Russia into line'.

I'd have thought the lessons learned of the Cold War would have been hindered to by now.

Very well said

 

[smudgedj]

Haha! Aren't you a touchy one.

Mate you have to take into account that it´s a Lefty answering your reasonable opinion with an argumentum ad hominem, ‘cos he can’t refute your opinion otherwise. So actually it’s a compliment.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Just watching BBC news - they have someone from the Migration Observatory on that states that the strength of the UK economy is the main reason so many migrants from across Europe - including increasingly long-standing members such as Spain come here.

If EU membership is so much the reason for why our economy is doing so well - why is it that these other countries do not enjoy this benefit?

Perhaps we are not so EU dependent ?

Interesting new argument, we are doing well in the EU so we need out? As opposed to we are doing badly so need out.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I live down south - lots (certainly the majority) of people I speak to say they are voting leave. I hear people saying it must be the northern areas of the country that are so pro-remain.

1/6 does seem to be conclusive though. Perhaps the remain vote will get complacent and people will not bother getting out to vote. The leave voters should absolutely make sure that they vote and between now and voting day make sure they talk sense into at least one other person.

I would expect south east to vote out as without the EU to redistribute with Brexit any pretence that Britain is run for any other reason than the good of the south east could be dispensed with. For too long you've been held back by pesky things like health and education and welfare subsidising the north and the celts

 

[johnny on the spot]

Metal biker makes a great point about the proposed EU Army. But in the event of an Out vote, will Britain not be driven further into the arms of the United States?

With Cameron finished and the very real prospect of Trump being elected president, we could be looking at a Boris/Trump team-up, with the UK as a very junior partner. That to me is quite frightening.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I honestly haven't met one person who's confirmed they're voting to remain, not one.

There's a few who are undecided but every other to a man or woman is voting out.

Not sure where the remain get their confidence from going off what i hear and see around me tbh.

I suspect most remainers feel uncomfortable with rants about Germans, immigrants and bananas and just humour ......

 

[tshirtman]

I have always been on the remain side, mainly due to the European funding we get for big projects, Metrolink, Victoria station refurb, and £20m for the rebuild after the IRA bomb spring to mind, money we wouldn't get under the Tory's. (the Tory's gave Manchester £900k after the IRA bomb)

But the more I watch Dodgy Dave & Grey George the more they come across as a pair of second hand cars salesman running a cartel,

"this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, a deal you won't find anywhere else, if you buy our European model before the 23rd, this is what you'll save
» No third world war
» The use of the NHS
» 1 million more jobs to choose from
» No need to go through bankruptcy when your home is repossessed
» You'll get a discount of 20% off your next holiday
and don't just take our word" -
"Hi I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message"

I don't like politics of fear and that's all I've heard from both sides,
Corbyn is a hypocrite and his silence is deafening
As it currently stands I won't be voting at all,
Stay and get used to higher imagination
Leave and get used to more right wing politics

 

[mcfc1632]

Interesting new argument, we are doing well in the EU so we need out? As opposed to we are doing badly so need out.

That would seem to be a convoluted way to read it - clearly the way you wish to.

A more straightforward way would be "we are doing well in spite of the EU - as evidenced by how badly other EU countries are doing compared to us. Perhaps the EU is not the reason we prosper and perhaps we could do at least as well - perhaps even better out of the EU....."

 

[mcfc1632]

I would expect south east to vote out as without the EU to redistribute with Brexit any pretence that Britain is run for any other reason than the good of the south east could be dispensed with. For too long you've been held back by pesky things like health and education and welfare subsidising the north and the celts

Strange you should suggest that. I live in the South East - 35 miles from London. I have not heard such views - well at least not with regard to the North of England.

 

[EalingBlue2]

So you think Europe is shit but want to stay in??

You can change things here in time, in the EU, no chance and as for risks, voting in is the biggest risk of all as who knows what the EU will be like in another 10 years, if the past 40 are anything to go off we'll all be well and truly fucked.

Nothing will change in time most of the trends all the brexiters rally for are over a century old , the horses have long bolted and died of old age in a field decades ago. The irony is the dream people want to return to wasn't even that good at the time as any Dickens novel will tell you.

What exactly of the last 40 years has really fucked people, the last 40 years have been the statistically and factually the safest, wealthiest, most comfortable 40 years in human history. By a very large margin. It says something about the hysteria around today that you can even post that with a straight face.

A generation in Britain who know nothing of all the horrors that beset the last millennia now pretend that we're fucks - thank goodness yiu didn't have to go through the blitz or black death which were mild compared to the immense hardships of the last 40 years!

 

[EalingBlue2]

Strange you should suggest that. I live in the South East - 35 miles from London. I have not heard such views - well at least not with regard to the North of England.

Do you think anyone would voice it? London has been acting like that for hundreds of years but would never overtly say it. Look at thatcher it was her cornerstone pretty much but the rhetoric always has to be about everyone like she cares about the poor of Sunderland

 

[mcfc1632]

Fuck me - is that you Dave...................

Linking all the woes of history and benefits of the current world as either risks of leaving or benefits directly of the EU

 

[Phil1]

Perhaps such attitudes are the reason he is persuaded.

There is a degree of contempt being shown across the board to the leave position/voters

From the EU members throughout that farcical 'negotiation'

From Cameron, Osborne doing a total about face and now treating us all like children

And from some members of the public.......

Well my post was tongue in cheek to start with mate, but yeah, he went a bit mental didn't he? Haha!
He reminds me of one of those blokes I often see at the end of my bar, a wannabe political bore who likes to talk a good game but instead end up all angry and blustered because everyone is laughing at them.

 

[EalingBlue2]

That would seem to be a convoluted way to read it - clearly the way you wish to.

A more straightforward way would be "we are doing well in spite of the EU - as evidenced by how badly other EU countries are doing compared to us. Perhaps the EU is not the reason we prosper and perhaps we could do at least as well - perhaps even better out of the EU....."

This is the core issue with Brexit as it was with the Scottish independence vote. Everything good happens despite of the EU (or Uk) everything bad happens because of the EU (uk) surely no one will seriously fall for that line - it's Kim Jong il in its bias