EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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BigJoe#1 said:
I take your point about the UK managing its own finances outside the Eurozone and is part of the justification for leaving, that said....

You are saying decisions could be taken which would advantage the Euro over the pound if two thirds of the votes (a vote to which the UK is not entitled) decide to do so....

Regarding your final point business is business! And if it meant making the Euro stronger, even to the point that it may encourage the UK to join...? Get where I'm coming from here?
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Good points Joe. Yes people / Coubtries will always try to get an advantage.

The QMV tend to be on things like changes to rules, agreeing major budgets. The Eurozone Club will be able to make decisions that just affect them but would need to reach an agreement / vote on issues that directly affected other Member States eg probably any bailouts
 
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Tim of the Oak said:
We could do several things including:
- reduce the half of immigration that comes from outside the EU.
- strengthen border controls where budgets have been slashed in recent years.
- utilise the legislation that has been part and parcel of EU membership eg if a company will only Employ Easter Europeans in its warehouses then we should sue them to high heavens.
- invest the extra tax revenue to expand capacity and capability in our public sector.
- grow our own workforces (eg in the NHS) rather than continue to recruit (at scale) from Asia and the rest of Europe
- implement the rule changes Cameron secured to family benefits etc.
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To your points....

- So rather than let in qualified professionals that we need we allow unqualified people who just want to come here?
- Good luck trying to get more money for that in these austere times
- Again good luck trying to sue companies that will claim they are just engaging with European ideal.
- Seriously, remind me from where this extra tax revenue is coming from, plus I'm sure I don't need to remind you we have a conservative government- invest in the public sector... well at least you made me smile.
- The rule changes which were promised to be scrapping it for foreign nationals but turned out to still paying it, albeit at the rate of their home countries. Here's an idea: if the kids live in Poland, Romania, or anywhere else for that matter, why don't the home nations where the kids live pay their own family allowance? Radical..? I think not!
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Good points Joe. Yes people / Coubtries will always try to get an advantage.

The QMV tend to be on things like changes to rules, agreeing major budgets
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I am seriously for Leave, but if we do remain I think we need to commit to it in its entirety and get involved. This half in half out half Arse solution in my mind is the worst of all worlds!
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Did the EU invent the requirement for borrowers to pay back loans? I thought this principle went back to the origins of banking?

Ireland seems to be thriving again whilst Greece is suffering. It's not all down to the EU!
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Ireland is far from thriving. We've painted a picture to seem like we are so the EU would give us top marks but we are in a terrible state behind the scenes. Homelessness is rife, crime is rife, health is a shambles, housing is a disaster, no infrastructure projects, utilities falling to bits. The EU forced us to save banks that should have gone to the wall. People can talk about the disaster that would have been the alternative but it'd have been far better for us. My faith in the EU is completely shot and I was a big supporter to begin with. I'd have Ireland out tomorrow if I had a choice even if it meant my job disappearing and having to find something else. In the long run it'd be better for my kids I believe. As it is they'll be paying back these debts and probably more to come a the EU fuck up more and more. The mainlanders will never understand Irish people or culture and they like us. They don't even like ye :-) so ye'll be fucked.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I am seriously for Leave, but if we do remain I think we need to commit to it in its entirety and get involved. This half in half out half Arse solution in my mind is the worst of all worlds!
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Not even the inners want that. The EU is so marvellous that even its supporters prefer to stay on the fringe.
 
TonyM said:
Ireland is far from thriving. We've painted a picture to seem like we are so the EU would give us top marks but we are in a terrible state behind the scenes. Homelessness is rife, crime is rife, health is a shambles, housing is a disaster, no infrastructure projects, utilities falling to bits. The EU forced us to save banks that should have gone to the wall. People can talk about the disaster that would have been the alternative but it'd have been far better for us. My faith in the EU is completely shot and I was a big supporter to begin with. I'd have Ireland out tomorrow if I had a choice even if it meant my job disappearing and having to find something else. In the long run it'd be better for my kids I believe. As it is they'll be paying back these debts and probably more to come a the EU fuck up more and more. The mainlanders will never understand Irish people or culture and they like us. They don't even like ye :-) so ye'll be fucked.
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Thanks TonyM and sorry to hear the problems in Ireland are still acute.
 
sir baconface said:
Not even the inners want that. The EU is so marvellous that even its supporters prefer to stay on the fringe.
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The majority of Brits are Eurosceptic, but will probably vote to stay because they've been convinced they'll be a few quid a week worse off. I'll give it six months before they realise they've been conned, and with the threat of a referendum out of the way we'll have to take everything the EU has in store (which they're currently keeping very quiet about) for years to come. Cameron will be long gone by then probably with a nice cushy EU job as a reward for his sterling service.
 
This business about going into the unknown... There is some truth in it but I'd liken it to an unhappy marriage. Breaking up raises the spectre of financial worries and hardship but, if pushed hard enough, you have to take that step. And in many cases it works out for the best.
 
sir baconface said:
Not even the inners want that. The EU is so marvellous that even its supporters prefer to stay on the fringe.
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That's not true, the remain camp is flacid in its arguments (but at least they have one) because they won't promote the EU, but there are those who would love to see greater integration but there is nowhere for their voice to be heard.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I am seriously for Leave, but if we do remain I think we need to commit to it in its entirety and get involved. This half in half out half Arse solution in my mind is the worst of all worlds!
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You are right in a lot of ways Joe. Whilst I am against joining the Euro for hindering our economic flexibility we could do a lot more to be seen as a key member state. For example, we tend to grandstand (gloat) when we block an EU policy or vote instead of playing the longer game like France. This has alienated us from some former Allies eg amongst the Eastern European countries that joined over the last decade or so that in turn has reduced our influence in the EU.

We also have this habit of either blocking the EU or implementing the most rigid inteoretation of a rule / policy possible. The French, for example, may agree to things looking like good European but with no intention of implementing them.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
You are right in a lot of ways Joe. Whilst I am against joining the Euro for hindering our economic flexibility we could do a lot more to be seen as a key member state. For example, we tend to grandstand (gloat) when we block an EU policy or vote instead of playing the longer game like France. This has alienated us from some former Allies eg amongst the Eastern European countries that joined over the last decade or so that in turn has reduced our influence in the EU.

We also have this habit of either blocking the EU or implementing the most rigid inteoretation of a rule / policy possible. The French, for example, may agree to things looking like good European but with no intention of implementing them.
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You seem to be a very balanced person Tim and the points made above are valid.

It's a common belief (and correct in my book) that the majority of European Givernmants don't take a blind bit if notice about what the EU tells them to do and carry on in their own sweet way.... but the UK, follow everything to the absolute letter
 
The perfect fumble said:
That's not true, the remain camp is flacid in its arguments (but at least they have one) because they won't promote the EU, but there are those who would love to see greater integration but there is nowhere for their voice to be heard.
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I can't see this settling down any time soon. Although an outer, I have little doubt the vote will be to stay in, swung by the "devil we know factor. The uncommitted middle grounders will simply not take the risk.

It will leave a nasty taste after all the shenanigans and - if you are correct - there will battles ahead o more than one front.

That said, there would be a lot of bitterness after an out vote too. The genie is out of the bottle and this referendum is going to solve very little.
 
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