EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
The criminals wouldn't be able to exploit them without the complete free movement of people from the EU. So yes, immigration controls, or the lack of, are directly culpable.

In fact, most of the people smugglers are themselves usually EU nationals from Eastern Europe.
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Brexit won't change a thing about immigration to get the treaties the UK will sign up to free movement and the drivers such as Murdoch behind Brexit want lower regulation and cheap labour and economic growth and will make sure it's just as high as it's ever been. Look at all the kerfuffle in Australia, despite all the politics and stopping a few thousand boat people coming (which is an utterly irrelevant number) immigration has stayed just as high, the actual rules have barely changed and the mix of immigration has become more south Asian than it was before. Why because Murdoch loves the politics of it and how it plays for the right and plays to people's prejudice but none of them want it reduced with the effect on tax take, economic growth, productivity and wages it would bring.

If people are voting for Santa because they want Easter eggs they will be sorely disappointed and in a way of it wouldn't prove so damaging for the UK economy it would be entertaining to sit back and watch the utter outrage that will be coming from the little englander portion of Brexit when they realise that some of their own will side with the enemy and sell them out.
 
grunge said:
Seriously? You think stopping legal immigration will stop illegal immigration? It will probably make it worse.
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Course it will imagine if the French and Belgians make no attempt to stop people smuggling in vehicles or people getting on boats.

its just people thinking incredibly blinkered and not actually having a comparison.

People shouting about democracy when living in a monarchy, with an civil service with no electability running everything, an entirely unelected legal system, an unelected second house and a form of democracy that normally means around 20%-25% of voters in any seat have actually voted for the winner - making it one of the least representative voting systems in the developed world .

It's comedy and shows how little people actually think. People want to be sheep they just want an English shepherd instead of a European one (regardless of who the better shepherd is) but every night they will happily hide in their pens waiting to be shorn or sent to the abattoir.

The sheep keep arguing with other sheep because they are terrified of actually challenging the shepherd or sheep dogs.

If sheep wanted to escape and run free I'd understand but just voting for a smaller pen and a less able shepherd seems well..... Daft
 
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RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
If people are going to link the Independent and the Guardian, then there's not much wrong with linking the Mail.
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Guardian was never the cheer leader paper for the Nazis the owner never went over to have his picture taken with Herr hitler, should've been strung up with Lord haw haw and closed down in the 30's. If anything it has gone further right since then as well!
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Guardian was never the cheer leader paper for the Nazis the owner never went over to have his picture taken with Herr hitler, should've been strung up with Lord haw haw and closed down in the 30's. If anything it has gone further right since then as well!
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I wondered when somebody would bring up Nazis again. And sure enough it was you.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Brexit won't change a thing about immigration to get the treaties the UK will sign up to free movement and the drivers such as Murdoch behind Brexit want lower regulation and cheap labour and economic growth and will make sure it's just as high as it's ever been. Look at all the kerfuffle in Australia, despite all the politics and stopping a few thousand boat people coming (which is an utterly irrelevant number) immigration has stayed just as high, the actual rules have barely changed and the mix of immigration has become more south Asian than it was before. Why because Murdoch loves the politics of it and how it plays for the right and plays to people's prejudice but none of them want it reduced with the effect on tax take, economic growth, productivity and wages it would bring.

If people are voting for Santa because they want Easter eggs they will be sorely disappointed and in a way of it wouldn't prove so damaging for the UK economy it would be entertaining to sit back and watch the utter outrage that will be coming from the little englander portion of Brexit when they realise that some of their own will side with the enemy and sell them out.
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EB2, you keep banging at about us signing up to the free movement of people when we leave. That is a huge assumption is it not?

We have an economy that is bigger than Canada, Switzerland and Norway combined. We are in a unique position in that we wou,d be leaving the EU as opposed to asking to join it. The EU is going to be fundamentally weaker if we leave and there is a strong likelihood that other EU countries will force their governments to allow them the opportunity to follow ys and the liklihood is they will.

What makes you absolutely convinced we will be obliged to:

A) Agree to allow Fred movement and

B) Agree to tarriffs, and if we do we will impose the same to offset the effect?

It's almost like you think the EU without the UK is going to be the force it is with the UK. I would like to categorigally assure you that without the UK the EU will be fundamentally weaker and furthermore they will not have the influence you are assuming they will have. Trust me on that!
 
BigJoe#1 said:
EB2, you keep banging at about us signing up to the free movement of people when we leave. That is a huge assumption is it not?

We have an economy that is bigger than Canada, Switzerland and Norway combined. We are in a unique position in that we wou,d be leaving the EU as opposed to asking to join it. The EU is going to be fundamentally weaker if we leave and there is a strong likelihood that other EU countries will force their governments to allow them the opportunity to follow ys and the liklihood is they will.

What makes you absolutely convinced we will be obliged to:

A) Agree to allow Fred movement and

B) Agree to tarriffs, and if we do we will impose the same to offset the effect?

It's almost like you think the EU without the UK is going to be the force it is with the UK. I would like to categorigally assure you that without the UK the EU will be fundamentally weaker and furthermore they will not have the influence you are assuming they will have. Trust me on that!
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I am because the rules, the comments made, how other markets have been treated and prescedent suggest it. It is an assumption yes but let's be honest you can't criticise Inners for assumptions we have had to make a mere fraction . If argue that the economy is as it is because of the economic parts of EU membership, we were the sick man before that membership and as soon as we stop taking the pills we will be back sick again. This time with a 2 trillion dollar deficit, public services underinvested for decades and a worse global situation, fundamentals worse as a basis than the 70's.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
The criminals wouldn't be able to exploit them without the complete free movement of people from the EU. So yes, immigration controls, or the lack of, are directly culpable.

In fact, most of the people smugglers are themselves usually EU nationals from Eastern Europe.
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Of course they would, if a company is willing to break the law paying under minimum wage they will ( and lots do ) hire illegal immigrants.

Leaving the free movement area would do zero to help, it would make it worse as illegal immigrants have no process to be able to take the criminals who are exploiting them to he authorities.

And while there is a massive difference in salaries people will work out a way to get in, Using Albania as the example as they were quoted in the "article", the average wage over there is £1.40 an hour, so why wouldn't they move and work for £3/4/5 an hour and live like crap for a period of time while sending money back, to a lot of people it would be worth the risk to give an entire family over there a better life.

The 2 ways to stop illegal immigration is to help raise the standard of living where they are and to stop the companies from hiring them.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Coming soon from the Daily Mail foreigners cause cancer, the youth of today are all granny killers, left wingers eat Middle Aged women in hippy rituals, Muslims plan to massacre all Anglo Saxons on Easter Sunday 2018 etc etc
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At least you are consistent with your usual standard of posts.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
I am because the rules, the comments made, how other markets have been treated and prescedent suggest it. It is an assumption yes but let's be honest you can't criticise Inners for assumptions we have had to make a mere fraction . If argue that the economy is as it is because of the economic parts of EU membership, we were the sick man before that membership and as soon as we stop taking the pills we will be back sick again. This time with a 2 trillion dollar deficit, public services underinvested for decades and a worse global situation, fundamentals worse as a basis than the 70's.
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I can't argue with these assumptions EB2 but, this is a unique situation and if we vote to leave its going to get messy, very messy. Please do not think that it will be the EU holding all the aces. You know and I know that that will not be how it will be.... agreed?
 
Ealing Blue - I disagree with nearly everything you say but (genuine compliment) I've got to admire your prodigious output. If the remain campaign aren't paying you, they fookin well should be.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I can't argue with these assumptions EB2 but, this is a unique situation and if we vote to leave its going to get messy, very messy. Please do not think that it will be the EU holding all the aces. You know and I know that that will not be how it will be.... agreed?
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What do you mean 'if we vote to leave?'

If Brexit fails it doesn't matter because at least 40+% of the electorate will vote to leave.

That means that in the next general election no other party can stand against a party fielding to leave the EU.

It's just a matter of time.

We're leaving.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I can't argue with these assumptions EB2 but, this is a unique situation and if we vote to leave its going to get messy, very messy. Please do not think that it will be the EU holding all the aces. You know and I know that that will not be how it will be.... agreed?
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I don't think that the EU do hold all the Aces at all I think that Brexit will do harm to working people all over Europe, I think it will cost jobs and harm long term prospects both sides of the channel. I do though think unfortunately given the nature of the campaign for Brexit that both sides will make stupid decisions if Brexit wins and it will be unfortunate.

A country that has for the last 4 decades sold off its infrastructure and underinvested, has driven down its investment in education and dropped globally and become addicted to zero interest rates is not in a position to open itself up to true global competition.
 
YPhrunts said:
What do you mean 'if we vote to leave?'

If Brexit fails it doesn't matter because at least 40+% of the electorate will vote to leave.

That means that in the next general election no other party can stand against a party fielding to leave the EU.

It's just a matter of time.

We're leaving.
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I don't think we'll leave, but I do think the whole EU project will eventually disintegrate.
 
YPhrunts said:
What do you mean 'if we vote to leave?'

If Brexit fails it doesn't matter because at least 40+% of the electorate will vote to leave.

That means that in the next general election no other party can stand against a party fielding to leave the EU.

It's just a matter of time.

We're leaving.
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What absolute tosh!!! But interesting to see that 40% is now a Brexit victory and not 45%. If Brexit loses they might split 5 ways , destroy the Tory party in Rage and spend so much time fighting themselves Corbyn gets in. Could be the destruction of the Tories for a decade as likely as 40% meaning inevitable victory.

Remember the polls brexiters are dying off much quicker than Inners are
 
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