EU referendum

[Balti]

i hope it is and wish it was but for decades have felt in places like the UK, US that the poor are increasingly blamed for poverty and people are looking at ways to almost punish them for poverty. I have always felt the UK way to the right of Europe economically and as such feel that left to their own devices a Tory England would do severe damage to the poorer regions of the country. I know others on the left who feel the opposite

The left have had plenty of years to prove that they are the saviours of the poor and the working class in the UK. They have failed utterly. The 'left' is in fact just another 'right'.

The politicians line their own pockets and those of their friends in the City and big business at the expense of the average man in the street. Labour or Tory - it makes no difference.

The establishment is corrupt and this is why the old left/right patterns are now being ignored and bypassed.

Rip it up and start again.

 

[EalingBlue2]

It's not. Every national poll has Brexit increasing. Te only other statistic that's changing is the number of undecided's. Rose 8% in the past few days.
I'm wondering, if our poll is open to guests as well as registered Bluemoon posters, the vote could be influenced by that.

Remain is rising because people keep shifting to Brexit because I annoy them - as I've been told 100 times.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

That's shite. @hamaanpineapple. The reason I'm voting remain is for my kids. My grandparents who dealt with Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin think an out vote is stupid and ridiculous. My daughters and her friends would vote in.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Remain is rising because people keep shifting to Brexit because I annoy them - as I've been told 100 times.

In all seriousness, this poll has always been a good few % further towards remain than the national ones so it looks like remain or too tight to call

 

[EalingBlue2]

That's shite. @hamaanpineapple. The reason I'm voting remain is for my kids. My grandparents who dealt with Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin think an out vote is stupid and ridiculous. My daughters and her friends would vote in.

Hear hear - my forefathers certainly didn't fight for divisiveness and the likes of Farage and Johnson either. My great great grandfather was an unarmed stretcher bearer on the Somme, a pacifist but one who rather than refuse to enlist, enlisted but refused to carry a gun.

Actually that's it's not completely true I did have a deeply racist grandfather from Thanet who wanted Mandela executed and complained about how the smell of curry was ruining Britian and that was before Maastricht and the EU. He would've been the one family member who probably would have gone against the rest.

 

[EalingBlue2]

The left have had plenty of years to prove that they are the saviours of the poor and the working class in the UK. They have failed utterly. The 'left' is in fact just another 'right'.

The politicians line their own pockets and those of their friends in the City and big business at the expense of the average man in the street. Labour or Tory - it makes no difference.

The establishment is corrupt and this is why the old left/right patterns are now being ignored and bypassed.

Rip it up and start again.

Politics on both sides is failing because both sides continue to treat the public like weak and indulgently parents treat two year olds. Like two year ilds the second the government says anything tough the population whine .

Expectations need resetting massively the not caring tomorrow, taking everything today has to stop and sacrifices have to be made to protect the health service, to protect dignified retirement etc

I don't think the corruption is monetary I think it is a corruption of ideas a constant desire to make short term decisions that make today easier even if they fuck the world forever

 

[Balti]

Hear hear - my forefathers certainly didn't fight for divisiveness and the likes of Farage and Johnson either. My great great grandfather was an unarmed stretcher bearer on the Somme, a pacifist but one who rather than refuse to enlist, enlisted but refused to carry a gun.

Actually that's it's not completely true I did have a deeply racist grandfather from Thanet who wanted Mandela executed and complained about how the smell of curry was ruining Britian and that was before Maastricht and the EU. He would've been the one family member who probably would have gone against the rest.

they probably wanted the Germans to dominate Europe via the back door then?

 

[Leech]

Right that will be even more agricultural land lost to concrete and tarmac and you would be happy that we will have to import even more food than we do already?
Our population to land mass ratio is already the highest in Europe apart from Cyprus and Gibraltar.

Where are you going to build more car parks in our villages and towns? There just is no more room to expand. I've had to return from shopping trips because I couldn't find a parking space.

Canterbury is a nightmare to navigate around and even further north in places like Brigg which used to be a pleasant Lincolnshire market town it has now become as congested as hell. The council are desperate to find more parking areas but there is just no space available.
It is estimated that we will have to build a city the size of Coventry every year just to stand still. And you want that?

Yes I know Brigg from being nearish the RAF base, but I think the issue of continued economic development through free trade in the EU is far more important than squabbles about parking spaces.

I agree that net immigration is something that needs to be looked at, everyone does, but really immigrants are the reason our country is the power it is today and having given the EU an almighty scare now and with growing worries in other countries about immigration we can push for corrective measures without sacrificing the overwhelmingly positive effect the EU has had on ourselves.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

Hear hear - my forefathers certainly didn't fight for divisiveness and the likes of Farage and Johnson either. My great great grandfather was an unarmed stretcher bearer on the Somme, a pacifist but one who rather than refuse to enlist, enlisted but refused to carry a gun.

Actually that's it's not completely true I did have a deeply racist grandfather from Thanet who wanted Mandela executed and complained about how the smell of curry was ruining Britian and that was before Maastricht and the EU. He would've been the one family member who probably would have gone against the rest.

My Nonna is racist, but she moved from Valverde in Sicily, and married an Irishman. The EU is beneficial.

 

[Paul_Powers_Tash]

That's shite. @hamaanpineapple. The reason I'm voting remain is for my kids. My grandparents who dealt with Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin think an out vote is stupid and ridiculous. My daughters and her friends would vote in.

You obviously haven't seen the figure for youth unemployment in the EU then YT. Greece 48.9%, Spain 45.3%, Italy 39.1%, Portugal 30% etc etc. And if you think these are bad now these figures have been getting worse year on years for the last 12 years, I myself have three children and the thought of staying in the EU which clearly isn't working scares me to death. As for Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin we have NATO to prevent anything like that happening again.

Look at it this way. If a UK government presided over a parliament that saw youth unemployment at anything like the levels above what would happen? We'd vote them out and get someone in with a clear mandate to do something about it. Can the people of Greece, Spain, Italy etc get rid of the decision makers in Europe who have created this unemployment through the ridiculous common currency the EURO. We both know the answer to that is no, and for the sake of all our children how can we then vote remain.

 

[Jim Tolmie's Underpants]

Hear hear - my forefathers certainly didn't fight for divisiveness and the likes of Farage and Johnson either. My great great grandfather was an unarmed stretcher bearer on the Somme, a pacifist but one who rather than refuse to enlist, enlisted but refused to carry a gun.

Actually that's it's not completely true I did have a deeply racist grandfather from Thanet who wanted Mandela executed and complained about how the smell of curry was ruining Britian and that was before Maastricht and the EU. He would've been the one family member who probably would have gone against the rest.

They probably wanted us to give up our sovereignty then?

 

[EalingBlue2]

they probably wanted the Germans to dominate Europe via the back door then?

That is extremely offensive to people who risked their lives and in the case of quite a few of my forefathers died fighting or in the case of pacifist risked life and limb to save comrades , but I doubt you meant it as offensively as it could be taken. They fought precisely so Europe could be peaceful , tolerant and strongly against the ideology of people like Farage.

 

[EalingBlue2]

They probably wanted us to give up our sovereignty then?

Sovereignty doesn't exist , do you not get it? We cannot defend ourselves, we are not self sufficient, we have no control over our power, telecoms, digital platform, are not self sufficient in many the basics of life. Anyone who is really thinking that this vote will have any bearing on sovereignty really hasn't looked at the bigger picture.

You may think it's clever to insult the dead, fair enough if that is the standard you set for yourself!

 

[Balti]

That is extremely offensive to people who risked their lives and in the case of quite a few of my forefathers died fighting or in the case of pacifist risked life and limb to save comrades , but I doubt you meant it as offensively as it could be taken. They fought precisely so Europe could be peaceful , tolerant and strongly against the ideology of people like Farage.

So basically Farage is some sort of Hitler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. A huge chunk of voters in Britain have become UKIP (Nazi) then lol.

Behave.

 

[Tricky Dickys Right Foot Shot]

 

[EalingBlue2]

So basically Farage is some sort of Hitler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. A huge chunk of voters in Britain have become UKIP (Nazi) then lol.

Behave.

I don't think UKIPers have that opinion but some may well do. Farage is a very right wing politician and I have no doubt deeply prejudiced and xenophobic, he has had years of training in trying to be the tolerable and moderate looking face of the far right. Same with that Austrian guy he was a lifelong facist but a bit of spin doctoring and he tried to be the moderate face. They become the moderate face precisely so they can get voters sucked in that they are not what they really are.

So I think yes Farahe has been since his childhood if reports are to be believed a facist and racist . But those who vote UKIP vote for all sorts of different reasons most of which would not be facist and many vote for them for nothing more than frustration.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Brilliant. Closest thing to balance yet!

 

[Yaya_Tony]

You obviously haven't seen the figure for youth unemployment in the EU then YT. Greece 48.9%, Spain 45.3%, Italy 39.1%, Portugal 30% etc etc. And if you think these are bad now these figures have been getting worse year on years for the last 12 years, I myself have three children and the thought of staying in the EU which clearly isn't working scares me to death. As for Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin we have NATO to prevent anything like that happening again.

Look at it this way. If a UK government presided over a parliament that saw youth unemployment at anything like the levels above what would happen? We'd vote them out and get someone in with a clear mandate to do something about it. Can the people of Greece, Spain, Italy etc get rid of the decision makers in Europe who have created this unemployment through the ridiculous common currency the EURO. We both know the answer to that is no, and for the sake of all our children how can we then vote remain.

I appreciate the fact you've got your own kids, fact of the matter is imho, an out vote is stupid. Should have joined the Euro in the first place tbh.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Sovereignty doesn't exist , do you not get it? We cannot defend ourselves, we are not self sufficient, we have no control over our power, telecoms, digital platform, are not self sufficient in many the basics of life. Anyone who is really thinking that this vote will have any bearing on sovereignty really hasn't looked at the bigger picture.

You may think it's clever to insult the dead, fair enough if that is the standard you set for yourself!

All in your humble opinion of course.

 

[Metal Biker]

That is extremely offensive to people who risked their lives and in the case of quite a few of my forefathers died fighting or in the case of pacifist risked life and limb to save comrades , but I doubt you meant it as offensively as it could be taken. They fought precisely so Europe could be peaceful , tolerant and strongly against the ideology of people like Farage.

Give over, everyone has had family members who fought and died in that war. It's not exclusively something for you personally to get offended about. They didn't fight "for" anything, they fought "against" tyranny. Britain was under risk of invasion and they fought to protect their families at home because the only other choice was surrender and collaboration. Not any heroic, noble ideals of peace, liberalism, humanity and love for your common Man. No patriotic notions of serving King and Country. They were protecting their family and friends. Your idea that they were fighting to preserve the "European ideal of tolerance" is something i'd expect to find in a hippie circle.