EU referendum

[SWP's back]

I'm assuming you're referring to your own post.

My point was perfectly linear.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Absolutely loans are there to be made and paid back, but the construct of monetary union requires a central bank - ok check we have the ecb - it also requires the issuance of sovereign bonds so that that entity can go into the market and borrow accordingly based on their credit rating i.e a so called Eurobond which is underwritten by the sovereign state; in the UK we have gilts but in the eu they all still have their own bonds Italy has BTPs, Germany bunds etc - this is what has caused all the turmoil in the markets and led to subsequent bailouts for these individual countries as the market came for the weaker states bonds pushing the price of borrowing to unsustainable levels which led to the requirement for bailouts -

Germany have always resisted the introduction of the Eurobond because ultimately they did not want to underwrite the weaker countries debt borrowing requirements as they would have the most to loose in any defaults - fine you may say but that goes back to the principal of paying back loans - these countries have internally devalued so much that they are meeting primary targets imposed by the eu but as soon as they add in the interest owed on their debt they are buggered again so loans can't be paid off. If they had their own currency they could inflate their way out of debt. This is why ever closer union is a must and not an option.

The jury is still out on Ireland from the Irish clients I have and it's not just Greece, you have 50% youth unemployment here and in Spain, Italy and not even sure what's happened to Cyprus now.

Very helpful post. I would add that these countries should have gone into these financial arrangements with their eyes wide open - although the outcome in some cases has been unfair.

Regarding the PIGS, there were a range of factors affecting their ability to repay including economic slowdowns and - for example - Greece has collected too few taxes from their rich. Irish investors over extended themselves in the property market.

Several countries shouldn't have gone in (or been allowed in) to the Euro!

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Forgotten about the coups in Italy and Greece? Both countries now run by eurocrats.

really?

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it (stupid expression I know). The fact that we need to join the entirevEuro project - however that may manifest itself, should be the cornerstone of every inners arguement.... how on earth could it not be?

Thanks Joe and yes you can. France have done that very successfully over many years looking after the Common Agricultural Policy. They play the long game in being helpful to the European Commission and other Member States so when it comes round to their priorities, the Frenchies are quids in!

 

[The perfect fumble]

The leavers can't have it both ways. Today in the Torygraph the blonde buffoon is warning how the EU is falling apart with member states in open revolt and it risks dragging us down with it, the other day it was this unstoppable bureaucratic juggernaut driving us towards a federal Europe, tomorrow it'll be a Mister Whippy Van driven by Turkish gangsters drugging our children.

 

[worsleyweb]

The leavers can't have it both ways. Today in the Torygraph the blonde buffoon is warning how the EU is falling apart with member states in open revolt and it risks dragging us down with it, the other day it was this unstoppable bureaucratic juggernaut driving us towards a federal Europe, tomorrow it'll be a Mister Whippy Van driven by Turkish gangsters drugging our children.

Would like to see you in a debate with the blond buffoon. He is clearly a superbly intelligent man who believes that for the good of our country we should leave the EU. Many people (indeed potentially and hopefully a majority) agree. We will see in a few weeks.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Thanks Joe and yes you can. France have done that very successfully over many years looking after the Common Agricultural Policy. They play the long game in being helpful to the European Commission and other Member States so when it comes round to their priorities, the Frenchies are quids in!

But the French are in the Euro and when strategic decisions need to be taken they are there, in the centre, at the helm with Germany, directing the decisions and doing what's best for them, why wouldn't they?

If any investment decision meant the Euro benefiting big time but at cost to sterling, do you think they'd not make it? Of course they wouldn't - why shouldn't they? They'd be stupid not to.

If we're in the UK needs to be dining at the very top table in all matters - anything less is absolutely mind blowingly stupid... or are you happy for those who make decisions to be doing so with no regard for the pound?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Would like to see you in a debate with the blond buffoon. He is clearly a superbly intelligent man who believes that for the good of our country we should leave the EU. Many people (indeed potentially and hopefully a majority) agree. We will see in a few weeks.

His brilliance clearly extends to holding two contradictory cognitions in his head at the same time which is no mean feat.

 

[sir baconface]

Is that why the Leavers leaders are treating their target audience as if they are all stupid?

My point was about posters calling people with opposing views stupid. I don't speak for Gove and Bozza but I don't recall them actually calling people stupid. So please excuse me if I don't see the relevance of your post.

 

[worsleyweb]

His brilliance clearly extends to holding two contradictory cognitions in his head at the same time which is no mean feat.

What an answer.

Do you think we have control over our borders sufficiently?

Do you think a net migration figure the in several hundred thousand per year when we are in dire straights of more housing, schools and hospitals is a positive?

Do you think if we stay in this figure will be reduced?

Can we build the 200000 homes per year needed to keep up? And where do we build them.

Instead of talking nonsense about blond buffoons can we have some opinion on some of the actual issues?