EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Tim of the Oak said:
I think many Bluemooners don't like being told what they can and cannot discuss. That's only by the odd Brexiter, with the majority on here running a very fair campaign!
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Not sure anything has been off limits on this site ever when it comes to Europe though. But the conspiracy theorists and those living in the 50's need to learn to hack it a bit more . If people aren't hacking of now what will Friday be like.

Think if remain wins it will be Nigel that loses it, am seeing a huge amount of hate for his poster (breaking point or whatever it was called) and not only from ardent retainers. His agenda is quite different to Boris and Gove and I think that has reminded people of the nasty side of Farage and UKIP when they had been campaigning pretty well and definitely getting the better of Cameron and osbourne.
 
urban genie said:
False, he has annoyed remain Tory MP's with his snideyness of using this for his own gain, Gove has more chance of winning a leadership contest than him, but I am still betting May has played this campaign to her advantage.

Doesn't really matter who leads them they are all knobs anyway (sorry put my labour party hat on there, and it's not revelent to the referendum debate)
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I was talking about Bojo's intentions. May may well have adopted a cleverer strategy but they both want to be PM.

It is relevant to the debate because it goes to the centre of how committed the leaders of the camps are? Bojo is probably more pro EU than Cameron!
 
I don't think it will be as close as the media make it out to be. A large percentage will probably vote to remain.


Many prefer to avoid the long-winded discussions and just cast their votes.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Still confident of a big Brexit win?
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I have never said I was confident of a Leave vote. All I have ever said is that I am not voting, but that if I did vote I would vote Leave and that I don't believe all the scare stories about leaving.

The only thing I have confidence in with this debate is that anyone who claims to have the right answer to this issue black and white with any degree of certainty is off their rocker.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
I was talking about Bojo's intentions. May may well have adopted a cleverer strategy but they both want to be PM.

It is relevant to the debate because it goes to the centre of how committed the leaders of the camps are? Bojo is probably more pro EU than Cameron!
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It still isn't relevant at all.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
A long but very interesting essay in The Economist (which has been resoundingly in the Remain camp generally).

http://www.economist.com/news/essays/europe

It makes the point that what is now the EU was basically France's post-war Plan C, after it failed to get control over German steel and coal then failed to build a pact with Russia. The author makes the point (which I'm not sure I agree with) that, from there, the EU grew by accident and possibly only got going properly when the French fell out with Britain over Suez and turned to the Germans instead. The whole basis of De Gaulle's refusal to grant us entry was the feeling we were too close to the USA (who had put pressure on us to abandon the military operation in Suez).

He might be right about its initial gestation but the more recent advances in European integration certainly had a wider motive, in my view. A-Level economics are enough to tell you that you can't force countries with completely different economies and fiscal policies into a single currency without causing damage. Control of interest rates, exchange rates and monetary policy are three of the key weapons that a country's financial policy makers need to have over their country's economy and while in the Euro, two of those have effectively been taken away, with economic consequences for the less strong economies. Greece, Portugal & Italy have suffered badly under the Euro while Spain has but has recovered slightly. It's created more problems than it has solved, which is another point the author makes. This EU, which is supposed to protect us against extremism and conflict, has actually led to the rise of the far-right as people express a greater desire for self-determination.

And there's worse to come because if you want growth in all the countries of the Eurozone, you have to have a single fiscal policy and, to do that, you need much deeper political integration. So people saying we should stay in and reform it from the inside are the delusional ones. The EU does not want to be reformed. It wants greater political and economic integration because that's the only way they can make it work and stop the whole thing falling apart. Like a company that's become too big and bloated and that's lost focus on where it should be, greater value will be delivered by breaking it up and making the constituent parts more nimble and better able to react quickly to changes in the business environment. The reason so many people in Europe and beyond want us to stay in is not for our benefit but for Europe's. Because if we vote to leave, then the pressure will grow for similar referendums in other countries. Despite being the founder of the EU, Euro-scepticism in France is even higher than it is here. The Euro has done nothing for the countries who went in to it.

The same economists who are predicting Britain will suffer outside the EU are also of the belief that the Euro is coming under increasing pressure as it perpetuates an environment of low growth and high unemployment. The initial crisis may have passed but longer term issues haven't. If Thursday was about joining the EU, with its mandatory acceptance of conditions such as the Euro and Schengen, there's little doubt it would be overwhelmingly defeated. The concept of central control and a planned economy died years ago. The Eurozone is, from a fiscal point of view, a planned economy. It's an idea whose time has longed passed. We need to vote to come out, start the process of dismantling the vanity project that is the Eurozone and go back to what we had, which was a Common Market where countries are free to make the economic decisions that best suit them, not that best suit Germany.
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and to add just a little. There are moves afoot in the EU to centralise some taxes, Energy being one of them. This is the start of what would become a dual tax system where the Federation sets taxes for centralised services and individual nations set local taxes. If you believe in the EU project it is a natural progression. If you believe in nation sovereignty it's the beginning of the end.
 
MeatnSpudsMCFC said:
I don't think it will be as close as the media make it out to be. A large percentage will probably vote to remain.


Many prefer to avoid the long-winded discussions and just cast their votes.
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Leave is currently doing better in the polls than Yes was the weekend before the Scottish referendum. Its going to be closer this time. 52/48 not sure which way.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Yet more untruths.... Brexit have only been about 110 ahead at the most. How does that translate to Brexiters flipping? Could it be that some undecideds have cast their vote? Never mind EB2, keep writing this crap and some of its sure to stick.
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And why the flying fuck does it matter what 900 people say on a football forum? There is a fair degree of obsessing going on, I think.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
How can you be certain the BoJo will be the next Tory leader? I think he stands little to no chance, he won't have the backing of the majority of Tory parliamentary party will he? They will be split right down the middle and many would not want work with or for him. The next Tory party leader will more than likely be Theresa May, as much as I despise her politics, she us about the only serving Tory MP that will have the profile, the clout and the authority to do this, the rest mate are dead men walking!
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If Johnson makes the short list of two on which the Tory membership votes, he wins.

There are more than enough Leave MPs to make sure that a Leaver comes 2nd in the MPs ballot. If Johnson beats Gove, Fox or any other Leaver to that nomination he wins.

It will be very difficult, if not impossible, for the Remainer to beat the Leaver in the membership vote.

Johnson will only not become PM if the MPs vote Gove into 2nd place.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
It was for Farrage to deny these rumours on the Preston Show - not me - and he didn't.

I have sensed a bit of panick in the posts of the Brexiters over the week end. I still think you guys will edge it!
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They really won't. Brexit would have had to be ten points up in the polls for me to think it was likely. People's arses go on polling day.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Yet more untruths.... Brexit have only been about 110 ahead at the most. How does that translate to Brexiters flipping? Could it be that some undecideds have cast their vote? Never mind EB2, keep writing this crap and some of its sure to stick.
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You'll make a hang em , Brexit 1950's politician of me yet
 
I live in the south east and have been at the postal vote turnout counts, they do not officially count the leave remain votes they simply place the votes in stacks of 50 and then place them all in the ballot box sealed. However of course, as you are watching the counters organize the ballot papers, you can see what box's are ticked, lets just say i was extremely surprised at strength of the X's next to leave.
 
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