EU referendum

[mcfc1632]

If we stay and the EU implodes, we'll be in a better position than if it falls apart after we leave because we would get the blame for it falling apart and set many countries against us.

But 'implosion' would come about through a many year drain and stress of propping up the Eurozone with us being continuously drained (don't be taken in my the claims of not be part / vetoes etc. - there are more than one way to skin a rich country as the EU proved last year).

This is our chance - when its gone - its gone

 

[Pam]

Why have Brexit become so panicked and melt downy all of a sudden? At each other's throats, innit.

 

[mcfc1632]

I suspect it is about that.

Now that I agree with. The US see them as a strategic partner, Erdogan as terrorists - the EU will be the US puppet to get some accommodation.

If this was sorted the other '34 criteria' would soon become conveniently less of an issue. They will get some 'associated status' so people cannot be accused to easily of lying - but they will increasingly get all the trappings - including free-movement

 

[BlueHammer85]

should we have listened ?

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Not mine but in tribute to Yep (Nopes) endless supply of pictures...

"We didn't fight two world wars to be ruled by Brussels/the Germans blah blah...."

I'm guessing, unless you are about 130 years old you actually didn't fight two world wars. I'm expecting that far from fighting any war, you've sat at home admiring your conservatory, and swallowing every euromyth Rupert Murdoch has fed you

You like the idea of "taking back control". You think leaving the EU will give you some kind of freedom. You haven't looked into the eyes of the people carrying those "taking back control" banners; Gove, Farage, Johnson. For some reason you think those guys have your best interests at heart? That they like alternative ideas? Or will allow you access to the truth? A free press? You do know that currently the UK is ranked 38th in the 2016 World Press Freedom Index? (Costa Rica, Ghana, Tonga and Uruguay all have a more independent media than the UK). That's how much our governing classes love freedom. They love their freedom (regulation-free) but not yours.

When they say "take back control", they mean; take control from Europe and give it all to them. The likes of Gove and Johnson and Rupert Murdoch. Journalist Anthony Hilton once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice."

Maybe the likes of Murdoch and Gove and Johnson and Farage want out of the EU because the EU has been the institution that has done most to give workers rights of employment. Many of the benefits and protections British people have at work are thanks to EU regulations, and there's zero chance the Tories would make maintaining those rights a priority in the event of #Brexit (see http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/25/workers-rights-are-on-the-line-in-eu-referendum-warns-tuc).

You need to know this; Murdoch wants more power and influence and the EU is standing in his way, Farage wants to privatise the NHS, even Cameron realised Gove was making a complete mess of being Education Secretary so sacked him; and Boris Johnson hates you.

The EU isn't perfect, far from it. But do you know what status Gove said the UK would have if we were outside the EU? He said we would be like Albania. He seemed to think that was a good thing (see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-britain-will-act-like-bosnia-and-ukraine-in-event-of-brexit-says-michael-gove-a6991711.html).

I know some people who live in, say Burnley, are brought up to believe that people living the other side of the hill, like, say in Blackburn, are somehow their mortal enemies. I wasn't brought up like that. I was brought up to believe our similarities are greater than our differences, that our common humanity is something to be embraced. The idea of retreating into an enclave, away from Europe, away from the world, disturbs me. We should be connecting to the world, building bridges and alliances (not retreating to a little England).

I'm voting #Remain because I'd hate the idea of living on an island with xenophobic leaders, fewer rights of employment, disappearing press and media freedoms, and an economy on a par with Albania.

Plus, I genuinely love being European. Take Boursin, for example. It's the eighth wonder of the world.

#Boursin NOT #Brexit.

I am surprised to find myself agreeing with some parts of your message - not delivered in your usual style so I am concerned your account may have been hacked. What I can't reconcile is the statement you make

' I wasn't brought up like that. I was brought up to believe our similarities are greater than our differences, that our common humanity is something to be embraced.'

Where is the humanity on the economic fire storm that the eu has unleashed ? What they did and are doing to Greece/Cyprus is beyond the pale - in essence sentencing them to a life of servitude. Their draconian austerity measures have led to a mass exodus of people having to leave their homeland and nothing at all to look forward to but a perpetual state of economic slavery to Brussels and Berlin.

The huge rise of far right and left parties is leading Europe to a very unhappy place, an anti eu mayor is set to become mayor of Rome shortly for the first time in it's history, the list of these parties are endless now and their support just keeps growing as the people become more and more disenfranchised with the world they grew up in. I too love being European which is why it saddens me immensely to see what a pigs ear the eu have made of matters.

The UK has the option to leave in an orderly fashion or remain and choose a seat in the boot of the EU car, for the rest of the EU it's a case of waiting for some far right party voted into power to call a referendum and it won't be long see Marianne Le Pen and the many others queuing up behind them.

We would never of needed this referendum if the eu had not been intoxicated with it's insatiable greed for power and the construction of a new state at all costs! In my opinion a vote to remain is an endorsement of a failed project or a federalist system.

 

[The Northern Baptist]

I think the margin of error would be even more pronounced this time around?

Anyone voting out appears to be tarred and pigeon holed as a racist Little Englander?

That is certainly not me, and I could well imagine plenty not admitting to their vote?

Plenty voted Tory, even though it seems the polls were much closer.

Not everyone who votes leave is a racist but every racist will vote leave is the way I see it

 

[Pam]

Farage's ridiculously brain dead remarks about Cameron today will swing a few outraged Tory voters behind him (Cameron, that is), who might otherwise not have voted. Good.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Now that I agree with. The US see them as a strategic partner, Erdogan as terrorists - the EU will be the US puppet to get some accommodation.

If this was sorted the other '34 criteria' would soon become conveniently less of an issue. They will get some 'associated status' so people cannot be accused to easily of lying - but they will increasingly get all the trappings - including free-movement

Sounds like scaremongering!

 

[Pam]

Not everyone who votes leave is a racist but every racist will vote leave is the way I see it

Excellent point, that.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Farage's ridiculously brain dead remarks about Cameron today will swing a few outraged Tory voters behind him (Cameron, that is), who might otherwise not have voted. Good.

There is a very good reason he said this term would be his last because regardless of what happens after this he has lame ducked himself in parliament. He had to call it because he said he would this time around but its done him in, he will see this as his last big triumph before he fails to get anything through parliament due to cutting off his backbenches