EU referendum

[adrian99]

That's only half the story though :). The elephant in the room that the Brexit campaign fail to adress is that the WTO rules have tarriffs and quotas. Once you've sold your quota you are either prevented from selling more or the tarrifs are prohibitively high and you effectively sell at a loss and there is plenty of extra capacity in Europe to fill the void of British exports.

Meanwhile German, French and EU exporters are going to do what when they run a massive trade deficit with us, cheer on the EU as the UK imposes reciprocal tariffs on EU exports. The EU today is weak, the euro debt crisis is still with it and the migrant crisis threatens to overwhelm it, even Schengen is at best in suspension, fences and closed borders are going up all over the EU. The last thing the EU needs is a trade war with the UK and the EU knows it, only Remainers desperate to keep us in a failed declining EU won't admit it.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You are missing the point unlimited EU immigration would be ended and the best of the best would then compete for a reduced immigration level targeted to get us back to the 50,000 a year we had pre 1997 under a worldwide points based system. For the ordinary Brit looking for a job, a better job, higher pay or training fewer competitors from open door EU immigration and as many again from outside the EU has only created greater less opportunities and greater competition for Brits, the very reason big business and government wants unlimited mass immigration, it provides an endless over supply of cheap unskilled immigrant workers. As for screwing up the economy how does the ordinary worker benefit from less opportunities, greater competition and at what point do we admit the population can not continue to increase at 333,000 a year? If a Brit can't find a job, earn enough to pay their bills, find their next better paid job, buy or even rent a home or get a doctors appointment what are the risks to them? Why should they compete with immigrants arriving from countries where incomes are a fraction of those here Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia or Slovenia. You state with total confidence our economy will be worse, what worse than Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and France's? Worse for whom? The same confidence that demanded we join the Euro or it would screw up our economy, the same politicians, the same institutions and the same big businesses that are so sure leaving now will screw up our economy.

The point you make has ignored the big picture and focused on one side of the issue. Exiting the EU puts trade with the EU at risk and plunges us in to a world of uncertainty which is very bad for business. There would undoubtedly be an adverse economic impact in the short term and in the long term the UK would be a much less desirable place to locate a business – so big business and global investment will go elsewhere. So voting out will on some level make it easier for brits to get jobs (on the basis we don’t let foreigners in to compete) but in the bigger picture there will be less big business and less investment in the future and therefore less jobs and we will live in a less prosperous country that struggles to compete with the rest of Europe never mind the rest of the world. The argument for British jobs is completely flawed on this basis.

 

[grunge]

People really need to read up on Import/Export duty and VAT rules, these are not Tarrifs but will still increase the price of things we import/export.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

 

[Blue Hefner]

You seem to have missed the point of it, its the fact there is NO PLAN ( that we have been told of ) Exiter's have no clue what they are voting on.

They would be voting for democracy. If I don't like the Tory's(I don't), I can vote them out, if I don't like the President of the EU, I cannot vote them out. They is one of the issues, the 'outers' are voting on - seems a reasonable place to start

 

[PragueBlue]

You seem to have missed the point of it, its the fact there is NO PLAN ( that we have been told of ) Exiter's have no clue what they are voting on.

I'm not sure the inners really have a plan either. In the 1975 referendum, I doubt the voters had a clear picture of what the EU would turn into when voting yes. If the yes vote prevails this time, who knows what the EU will look like over the coming decades. So inners probably have no clue what they are going to get either.

 

[grunge]

They would be voting for democracy. If I don't like the Tory's(I don't), I can vote them out, if I don't like the President of the EU, I cannot vote them out. They is one of the issues, the 'outers' are voting on - seems a reasonable place to start

It would be reasonable if it was true, but its not.

There is no President of the EU. Each section of the EU has a president ( Council, Commission and Parliament ).

The commission And Parliament presidents are elected by the Parliament ( MEPs, who we vote in! ) and the Council president is elected by the heads of state of member countries ( Who we vote in ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Union

Sounds really undemocratic!.

 

[grunge]

I'm not sure the inners really have a plan either. In the 1975 referendum, I doubt the voters had a clear picture of what the EU would turn into when voting yes. If the yes vote prevails this time, who knows what the EU will look like over the coming decades. So inners probably have no clue what they are going to get either.

We will get more of the same if we vote in, if we vote out we have no idea who we will trade with, if we are going a Norway/Switzerland or Free trade route, if we will sign into the EEA ( with all the issues with that, IE free movement of people ) etc etc etc.

without knowing how the gov will handle an exit vote we cant make an educated vote. Some people will be voting out expecting a Free trade thing, others will expect us to cuddle up to china and the states, others will expect a Norway route. All very different things..

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I'm not sure the inners really have a plan either. In the 1975 referendum, I doubt the voters had a clear picture of what the EU would turn into when voting yes. If the yes vote prevails this time, who knows what the EU will look like over the coming decades. So inners probably have no clue what they are going to get either.

Unfortunately you're wasting your time with that question, as I've posted it here on quite a few occasions and its either not answered or someone finds a tenuous link to a superstate fear or racism and boom the question doesn't get answered. No one can answer it because they are in the same position as the leave campaign in giving a definitive answer to an impossible question to answer.

 

[PragueBlue]

We will get more of the same if we vote in, if we vote out we have no idea who we will trade with, if we are going a Norway/Switzerland or Free trade route, if we will sign into the EEA ( with all the issues with that, IE free movement of people ) etc etc etc.

without knowing how the gov will handle an exit vote we cant make an educated vote. Some people will be voting out expecting a Free trade thing, others will expect us to cuddle up to china and the states, others will expect a Norway route. All very different things..

Who knows what staying in will bring though? Will we go fully in and adopt the euro etc or stay on the fringes as now?

 

[Monkfish]

It would be reasonable if it was true, but its not.

There is no President of the EU. Each section of the EU has a president ( Council, Commission and Parliament ).

The commission And Parliament presidents are elected by the Parliament ( MEPs, who we vote in! ) and the Council president is elected by the heads of state of member countries ( Who we vote in ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Union

Sounds really undemocratic!.

I have some sympathy with the view that the EU is in many repects undemocratic, but don't see the same uproar about becoming a republic, abolishing the House of Lords, putting in place systems to vote for levels of the civil service that govern us without ever having been voted in and changing our current voting system so it reflects the will of the people

What % of the electorate voted for our current govt again? Democracy yeah?