Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

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One of, if not the best keeper in the world at one on one saves, could work on diving to his left and passing placement/decisions but thats really the only noticeable issue for him right now. Deserves to be our no.1 carried us to the champions league semi finals last season.
 
Rolee said:
Hi Jordan,

A good thought provoking article.

Just have to ask have you looked at his passing stats? There's a massive difference between his performance at club and international level. It begs the question why?
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Thanks Rolee.

I looked at them briefly but I can't say I looked at them in terms of club/country differences.

In what way are they different?
 
tramazi said:
No, I dont see real concerns with Joe, except in the City hating newspapers.

It has been discussed on here constatntly and the consensus seems to be "show me the keeper who has never made a mistake"

His performances for City have been brilliant and have saved us on quite a number of occasions, and tbh that is what a top class keeper is supposed to be.

Hi lives breaths eats City, he, thhat is irriplaaceable (Are we breading a team of mercs or team that love City)

Lastly, it seems to me, the press come out with bullshit about our players and people start beleiving it. Even City fans start questioning if we need to "get rid". I tell you, we treat loyal players like that and we are going in the wrong direction. Doesnt mean he cant be dropped for a few games, but to get rid is ridiculous way to be shooting ourselves in the foot .
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Yeah fair enough mate, completely get what you are saying and I agree with a lot of it.

Worth pointing out though that I feel that it isn't his 'mistakes' which are our / Pep's main concern.

It is more whether he has the ability (with the ball at his feet) to allow Pep's style of football to work in the best possible way.

Ultimately this is what I think will decide his fate at the club, rather than his traditional goal-keeping capabilities.
 
Jordan CTID said:
Thanks Rolee.

I looked at them briefly but I can't say I looked at them in terms of club/country differences.

In what way are they different?
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His passing at international level is a lot better, I appreciate the sample sizes are smaller but the difference is stark and suggests to me that his distribution is affected by who he's distributing to.

I don't think his distribution/footwork is as bad as many suggest. He should at the very least get a season to prove he's capable of playing in a Pep side.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/8786/History/Joe-Hart
 
blueparrot said:
Playing out from the back is more about the defence and midfield than the keeper, as We saw in todays training video, he was drilling the team on being ready and in the right position quickly to receive the ball. When the defence know what they are doing Hart will be fine.
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It's about the players who could receive the ball working hard to find space to be passed in. All the 'keeper has to do is pass it if the players find the space. If they don't that's where the 'keeper looks like he's holding on to the ball for too long and he's the one who gets moaned at.
 
Rolee said:
His passing at international level is a lot better, I appreciate the sample sizes are smaller but the difference is stark and suggests to me that his distribution is affected by who he's distributing to.

I don't think his distribution/footwork is as bad as many suggest. He should at the very least get a season to prove he's capable of playing in a Pep side.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/8786/History/Joe-Hart
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Very interesting.

Maybe Pellegrini instructed him to kick it long more than Hodgson did?

Most of his touches at City are kicks towards the touchline in search of Sagna - plenty of margin for error?

Just speculating as don't really know the explanation
 
Jordan CTID said:
Very interesting.

Maybe Pellegrini instructed him to kick it long more than Hodgson did?

Most of his touches at City are kicks towards the touchline in search of Sagna - plenty of margin for error?

Just speculating as don't really know the explanation
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There will also be an element of the opposition involved in this - international teams are often very weak, and won't harry defenders as much making passing short more reasonable and easier.
 
There are no questions about many of Joe's qualities. He's a very good keeper. He's got some mistakes in him, but all of them do.

The question he'll need to answer is whether he can play a key part in the build up. Even sweeping he'll make mistakes and we'll have to live with them. But if you watch the training yesterday or read Pep confidential or just watch Pep's teams you know he's going to split his CBs and invite pressure deep. He does this because he wants to create space for attackers. Joe is going to have to play the ball wide to his split CBs and they are going to receive pressure and play it back to Joe under pressure. He has to be able to not just handle this but be an asset in this phase. Pep will want to build up and move forward from very deep positions so his team can explode forward as a unit and the GK is a major part of that. We can't possibly know if Joe can do this because we haven't really seen him try.

It seems foolish to prioritize this capability over actual GK skills but in the end I think it's really, really smart (of course, we have the best manager in the world). Teams have been able to force us into useless wide positions and our overall attack has often been too slow. When we lump it long toward a player, even if we win it, the defenders are already behind the ball and just need to organize themselves. Our attackers and midfielders have to drop deeper to collect it and when they turn they turn into banks of defenders and few forward options. We then U our way around the defense until someone gets fed up and has a go or a fullback or wide player hits and hopes a cross. Pep is going to invite this pressure deep on our CBs so that Aguero, Sterling, Silva, KDB get the ball in space with far fewer defenders to deal with. The gamble is that while we will inevitably lose the ball in dangerous positions from time to time and certainly leak some comical goals, we'll score far more because of the overall nature of our attack than we'll concede due to inviting pressure. It's almost like turning your team into a counter attacking team WITH the ball, which is crazy when you think about it.

If teams sit deep, and I imagine many will, Joe will play the ball to a ball playing CB who will need to take the space and look between the lines for a forward pass. I don't think we're going to see Hart playing balls to Sagna/touch much longer.
 
Jordan CTID said:
Yeah i get what you're saying, but it certainly helps to have a keeper who is comfortable playing in that system. In the past Hart hasn't filled me with confidence as a 'sweeper keeper'.

I really hope to be proved wrong as I love Hart as a person/club ambassador.
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He did fine in the Euros in this respect (when players got into space).
Our biggest problem throughout our play from back to front (for 2 seasons plus) is players not making themselves available forming triangles for a passing (whilst keeping their basic assigned position on the pitch).
I have no fear for Hart at all as, for a keeper, he is very skillful (plenty of videos of keepy-ups and rabona shots if you can be bothered looking).
 
Robinho's Subbuteo said: ↑
I think sometime Hart gets a bit 'too' pumped up and can often lead to mistakes.

mosssideblue said:
What evidence is there of that?
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Cos a pundit said so. The great sages of the game. Can't win with the press, show spirit and you're too pumped up, show none and you have no heart/fight.
 
Brendan110_0 said:
Robinho's Subbuteo said: ↑
I think sometime Hart gets a bit 'too' pumped up and can often lead to mistakes.
Cos a pundit said so. The great sages of the game. Can't win with the press, show spirit and you're too pumped up, show none and you have no heart/fight.
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So true.
It really is about time City fans stopped listening to the press agenda of always putting City players down who play for England.
Rooney, Henderson and Kane were all bl**dy sh*te at the Euros but did they get any stick?
 
Brendan110_0 said:
Robinho's Subbuteo said: ↑
I think sometime Hart gets a bit 'too' pumped up and can often lead to mistakes.



Cos a pundit said so. The great sages of the game. Can't win with the press, show spirit and you're too pumped up, show none and you have no heart/fight.
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I actually thought Wright had a point there it's all relative to what you think his mindset is sometimes though, is it nerves and adrenaline getting the better of him too much in which case he would need to calm down to stay mentally sharp for a full 90min? Or was it simply the manager wanted a fast start and he was trying to gee everyone else up as a leader of the dressing room? Personally I think it may be a bit of both he's a leader but he doesn't seem to have a calming influence which is sometimes needed to help settle a back four down, sometimes calm and collected is needed.

That said I have a lot of time for Hart, if the above is an issue that can be sorted with a few trips to one of these sports psychologists I'd imagine, I also think he could learn the sweeper keeper role but that wont happen over night. The rest of his game is good the mistakes happen when he's not focused or prepared which slows any keepers reaction time and all keepers make mistakes from time to time... the good thing about Joe is he is mentally strong he comes back from his mistakes fast and doesn't fall apart during a match like some might especially in high pressure games.
 
BlueAnorak said:
So true.
It really is about time City fans stopped listening to the press agenda of always putting City players down who play for England.
Rooney, Henderson and Kane were all bl**dy sh*te at the Euros but did they get any stick?
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I'm capable of forming my own opinion thanks. I don't need the press to tell me my opinion.
 
Robinho's Subbuteo said:
I'm capable of forming my own opinion thanks. I don't need the press to tell me my opinion.
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Really?
It is an observable fact that player movement while we have the ball has been pretty poor over the last two seasons.
It is also an observable fact that Joe Hart is pretty skilful player in training for a keeper - yet has never really shown this in live games.
So, lets see how Joe and the other players do under Pep then rather than repeating the press matra.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Really?
It is an observable fact that player movement while we have the ball has been pretty poor over the last two seasons.
It is also an observable fact that Joe Hart is pretty skilful player in training for a keeper - yet has never really shown this in live games.
So, lets see how Joe and the other players do under Pep then rather than repeating the press matra.
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I wasn't repeating the press, I didn't even know some pundit had said the same.
 
Englands second best keeper ever seems to think that Hart shouldn't be Englands first choice keeper atm.
Wonder how many on here are going to slag off Gordon Bsnks for agreeing with some of us on here ?
 
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